Lots of Questions, Lots of Thoughts

Before I get going here I want to clarify my position one more time. I do not think I know the answers to every horse training problem which comes down the pike. I only know what I learned through my experience as a trainer and competitor in western events.
I made the majority of my money as a trainer by starting colts and riding problem horses. I also had a good sized clientele of people who took lessons on their own horses and back when I first started, kids on school horses.

I was at best, a mid-level cowhorse trainer. I never got the top bred horses to ride, I got the hand-me-downs from better trainers. I say they were better because they were. Some of the people I rode with were absolutely brilliant. Some were vicious and cruel. Many of them were both. All were trapped in their career by the expectations of the people they rode for.
I quit because I was 50, broke and becoming crippled up. I saw two close friends get busted up, one almost died, both spent their kids college funds on the ICU. I was sick of what was done to horses in order to make it to the big time. I had enough.

I always mull over your questions carefully before I answer. I will be devastated if somebody gets hurt trying advice from me. I won't answer in depth training questions if I think somebody might get hurt.

I am only capable of telling you what I would do in your situation. I like hearing what others would do in the same situation. I know I get pissy sometimes. Sometimes I just get tired. Tired of trying to formulate safe, reasonable answers and then see them become skewed or deliberately misunderstood. I try to let you guys know when I'm feeling that way. It doesn't mean I want to stop the exchange of ideas.


Horse of Course wanted to understand why I use my legs the way I do. So here we go. My horses are taught to step away from the pressure of my outside leg and into the “open door” of my inside leg. I ask for the outside hind foot to move toward the inside front by putting my weight into the outside corner of my saddle (about five pounds) , my outside calf encourages my horse to step haunches first, away from my weight and towards my relaxed, (or completely off) inside leg.
When I ask for a lope depart I push with my outside leg, toward the inside front. The horse steps with his outside hind leg and lopes off.

Redsmom asked about ways to practice patterns.
I will practice pieces. I’ll lope my circles and set up for a run down off of them, then go back to my circles. I’ll make squares, rectangles and octagons, with my horse collected up and driven forward, then go into pattern parts in a relaxed easy manner.
I’ll lope a circle, stop at random, spin once, twice, three times, whatever to the inside of my circle and then lope off again, trying to stay on the same path. Things like that.

When it comes to running reining patterns I have learned the easiest way to remember what I’m doing is to break it down into parts.

All patterns ask for two sets of circles. One set to the left, one to the right. (I’m talking AQHA, NRCHA, NRHA) I’ll have to change leads once each way. (There’s one crazy one where you ride one circle left, stop, spin, then go the other way, stop spin, then do your changes, but it’s only one)
There are at least two stops, sometimes three, sometimes four.
You will spin left and right.
You will do roll backs in reining classes, but not always in cowhorse classes.
You will back your horse once.

Knowing these things, I will check (usually as I ride in the arena, but that’s a BAD HABIT) my pattern at the show.
If it’s a run in with spins or roll backs at the end I figure out if I roll back or spin TO the judge or AWAY from the judge.
I practice spinning one over the required amount at home. I make sure I can count my spins. (Kind of, I can’t tell you how often I zero because I can’t count)
My circles are just that, not figure eights. I have one set to the right, and one set to the left, or vice versa. The change comes in simply when I start my next set of circles.
So I think, Right circles first, big, small, big, change, left circles, big, small, big, change….
So here’s a sample.

I have a run-in pattern. I know I roll-back away from the judge (R). So I lope straight down the arena on my left lead and stop.
We roll-back right and my horse comes out on her right lead, we continue straight to the other end and stop.
We roll-back away from the judge (L), come out on our left lead and lope straight past the middle of the arena and stop. Hesitate
We’ll spin 4 times away from the judge (R)Hesitate
We’ll spin 4 ¼ times towards the judge (L)Hesitate
We’ll walk two or three steps forward, set up our depart and lope off to the right.
3 circles to the right, large, small, large, change, 3 circles to the left, large, small, large change, continue around the end of the arena, set up for a final rundown, stop past the middle cone. Hesitate
Back TA-DA!

So what I needed to remember was, Run in, roll-back away from the judge. Right roll-back, right lead depart, 3 circles, right spin, back at the end.
See where the flow comes in? They make sense if you think about it.

Redsmom-To encourage your horse to keep improving his stops…every time he gets his haunches under him when you say whoa, SIT! Loosen your reins, relax, let your horse catch some air. Sit still as long as it takes to smoke a cigarette, or pick your nose.
If he really slides, get down, loosen his cinch and be done for the day. He’ll be parking it in no time.

Autumnblaze has a horse pulling on the bit-I have a boundary. When I give my horse a loose rein I’ll give quite a bit. If he wants more, too bad. If my horse keeps bumping on the bit I’ll kick him forward into the bit and collect him up with lots of forward, then try again. If my response to his demand for more rein is more work he’ll knock it off.

Bedazzled is having trouble with rate in the hunt field. I can imagine. Your horse is running with the herd. WAAAAY more fun than listening to you….In cowhorse we have a similar situation. Our horses are running after a cow mind you, but we still get them being strong in the bridle.
First off, this has nothing to do with your bit. Don’t change! You have to work on this away from the hunt. It’s important to instill your rate cues away from the “scene of the crime”. The cues aren’t punishment, just cues.

I would start off with an energetic trot in an area I could count on him to be strong with me. The second I felt my horse get strong, I’d say “Eeeeasssy”, take hold of him and pull him down to a walk, then stop, then back a step or two. Rest a second and go again.

My cue would be to say “Eeeeeasssy”, sit heavy and quiet in my seat, with my hands strong but not yanking, and just melt …down…into….a….walk….then…stop…and…back. I wouldn’t give any release until we had backed our step. Then I would rest a second and start again.

I would do this over and over until he would begin to slow down as soon as I said Eeeeeeassssy”.
Then, when he slows one step below the speed I need him at I would relax, drive him forward to the speed I wanted and then relax again.

Then get it at the lope.

Once I had this cue down I would practice with friends. Let them go ahead, wait for the pull, and bring him all the way down to the stop, back.

Any time I don’t get a rate with my verbal cue, then I’m going to pull him down. Every time.
When it’s time for the hunt I would be willing to throw the day a time or two. He has to know you’ll pull him down, re-gather and start again as often as it takes. Even on hunt day.
That’s what I’d do.

Fyyahchild-back to spooking. Once I know I can ride a spook, I decide what is legit and what is bad behavior. I’ll get after them for being stupid. Sometimes I’ll get them to work (cut) plastic bags, goats, llamas, donkeys, whatever is freaking them. Usually I focus on staying on task. If I am circling, that’s what we’re doing. I’ll punish going off the circle, not the spook.

Justaplainsam on loping-Think slide, slide, slide at the lope. The harder you grip with your knees and calves the worse it will be. Try to stand in your stirrups and hold your horn for awhile. Then sit, stand, sit, stand. Hand on the horn, then off, on, off. Slide, slide, slide. I had this disgusting old man tell a bunch of us once, “Jest make looooove to that saddle honey.” He was a pig. He also had a point.

Redsmom-The horses ridden with two hands are 6 years old and younger. They are ridden in a snaffle bit (no shanks) or a hackamore (bosel).
Horses (western) 6 and over need to be shown in a shanked bit and ridden one-handed.
I always school and train my horses with two hands, no matter how old they are. Then I work them one handed. I go back and forth.