Stopping, Suppling and Snaffle Bits

I got this letter in an email. I edited it down some, but kept the important parts.

Alexis said: I had a question for you about my 9 yr. old gelding, Smoke.
I bought him when he was 5, and he was just serviceably broke.

Fast forward to now--he has a very nice stop, handles himself well and stays collected in a nice frame, picks his leads up and can carry it on any size circle.

It took me several months to get him to soften on the bit, and drop his nose as he stopped, rather than doing a bad impression of a giraffe. I put so much time and effort into getting that soft, collected stop that now, I have another issue to deal with.

When I stop my horses, I always ask them to back at least three or four steps. With Smoke, he stops, tucks his nose, and backs about 2 steps. If I ask him to back any more, he simply tucks his head to his chest. Now, I admit, I like for him to soften through his poll and neck before I back him up, but I'm at a loss as to how to get the next few steps out of him!

Ideally, I would like to be able to lope a circle, ask for a stop, then be able to back him up a foot or so without having to pull on his mouth. He's not doing any thing wrong per se, simply doing what I'd been asking him before by softening his face and poll.
Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated!!!

Hey Alexis -It sounds like your doing a great job of getting your horse going.
I think there is some confusion between you and Smoke on what you want from him and why you want it.
I’m not sure how you got your horse to soften when he stopped, so I’ll tell you what I do and why, and I think it will help.
If I have a horse who is throwing his head as he stops I make sure he isn’t sore before I start correcting things.
Hollowing out and throwing his head will be either a response to pain or anticipation of pain. So if he's afraid of getting pulled on, or knows it hurts to stop he'll give you this response.
If I am working on softening a horse through a stop I work on getting him to soften during the run down, then release him into the stop itself.
I get my horse soft in the face by working his ribs and shoulders, not his face. If his back is up and I’ve got him soft through his withers he’s going to travel soft in the face.
If everything is soft and relaxed he’s going to hunt his slide and travel with his front feet running and his hind end buried, all on a loose rein.
I want my horse to look forward to the stop, not dread it.
So two strides before my stop begins I release all my cues and say “Whoa.”
My hand relaxes and releases the head as my legs come off and quit asking for forward.
There’s lots of ways a stop can go wrong, but I’m going to focus on two problems which seem to most apply to your situation.
The first is if I ask for the stop and, well, he doesn’t. He can just keep going (rare), or he stops hard but then starts moving forward again once he stands back up.
In this case I’ll make him back.
But I don’t just pull on his face. I bump with my legs to get him back.
When I back a horse, I’m essentially bumping him forward into his bit.
My bit creates a wall. My legs push him into the unforgiving wall and he backs to escape the pressure.
In a situation where the horse is stepping back a few steps, then breaking at the poll and sticking, I’m going to look at this as confusion on my horse’s part.
If he’s stuck I take it to mean he has strung out and hollowed out his back. With his neck up and his head giving at the poll he really can’t get moving again until he get’s his body back under control, with his back up and his hind legs under him.
So I would kick him forward into my hand rather than keep pulling back. Then he can step forward, get himself organized and he can back off my legs again.
When I slide a horse like this, or one that hollows out and throws his head I will ask for the exact no pressure stop I described above, then kick him forward into the bridle after he has settled.
I might step him into a spin or two, or just trot some forward circles (depending on his level of training) and then I would go again.
The key to fixing my horse is to consistently allow him to complete his stop before I correct him.
Then I have to analyze what caused the problem and correct his position, either forward or back.

Kel said:I used to ride with an cowboy who started all his horses in a bosal, then to a snaffle and then to the two rein. He was in his 70's when I was riding with him and he said that was the way the old cowboys did it. I find it interesting that now adays that you go from the snaffle to the bosal and that is the accepted way the old cowboys did it. He could make one hell of bridle horse and won alot with them. What is it that you like about the snaffle bit first?

Kel- The most important thing to remember is not all trainers do things the same way, even back in the "old days." If your guy said everybody did it that way, it means everybody he trained with. Trainers who rode 30 or 40 years ago didn't share information like they do now. So there were unique pools of training going on in different parts of the country.

I learned to train from people who will also tell you "that was the way all the cowboys did it," and to their mind it is true.

That being said, I didn't learn cowhorse from cowboys, I learned it from professionals who train for the show pen. They also make lots of money in the show pen. But most of them don't work on a ranch (except Mike Miller, who's about the coolest cowboy on the planet).

The NRCHA (national reined cowhorse association) has futurities for three-year-olds. It's called "The Snaffle Bit Futurity" because most of the horses are started in a snaffle.

The four and five-year-olds are offered the hackamore classes and the derbies, then the bridle classes begin when the horses are six.

So that should explain why I train in this order.

It goes deeper than that though.

I work off a saying, "the snaffle develops soft shoulders and the hackamore develops a soft face."

I truly can't tell you where I first heard this, it's been around a long time.

The dressage guys can probably back me on how the snaffle works through the shoulders.

I want my horses to have their feet under control before I worry about where the face goes.

I firmly believe, from experience and conversation with trainers I respect, that if I have the feet the face will follow.

The hackamore then softens and refines the face in relation to the feet.

Also, after a horse has been in the hackamore for a year he will automatically go to neck reining.

When I turn a horse in the snaffle he will follow direct pressure from my hand. So when I pull left, he will go left.

The hackamore puts pressure on the outside of my horses face, so when I pull left his face is pushed left.

This is how the pressure works in a curb.

So this is why I train in the order I do.

It doesn't mean your old guy doesn't know what he's doing, or that he isn't a hand. But at the end of the day we all train our horses in a way we understand, no matter what the method.

Somebody else asked: Why do you send your horses forward out of a spin, instead of letting them stand?

Somebody else- I don't always send them forward, but going forward and loping a circle on a loose rein is a reward for my horses. I teach them the quiet spot is in their circles as well as when they stand.

A spin is a forward motion. The horse is stepping forward around his pivot foot. If I pull him back he will have a harder time getting around his hind foot.

So if I feel him coming back in the spin I will kick him forward and lope out of it.

If I let my horse stand and rest every time we spin he will start to hunt the rest instead of the spin, which will make him lug on my hand and leg.

If he gets to spin without me using any spur or too much rein he will look to give me a good spin.

If the spin is so perfect I don't need to ask for anything more I let him rest after the spin, but not until it's at least 70% ready to show.

I also drill my with a lope and spin exercise. I lope in a loose circle, I randomly stop, spin to the outside of my circle if I want to keep the same lead, or to the inside if I want to change leads. I do this all over the place. I spin one or two times, then lope directly out.

This speeds up my spins, increases my horses strength and agility and is fun. All without using too much spur.
I only send him forward with my legs, during the spin I sit quiet.

He starts to speed up his spin in anticipation of the lope.