tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post9109697575262457369..comments2024-01-03T03:28:48.980-07:00Comments on mugwump Chronicles: Bits and PiecesMugwumphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01487540636265322556noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-31488137799031214262008-09-15T00:06:00.000-06:002008-09-15T00:06:00.000-06:00I'm a fairly new reader, but already I find that I...I'm a fairly new reader, but already I find that I'm addicted to this blog of yours! I'm also a big fan of FOTD (Fugs) which is how I found out about you, actually. You've inspired me to start up my ow blog, as well as improve my horsemanship from the ground.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the inspiration, and a great read.Twillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13885160823404755756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-33412293284323366612008-08-15T15:20:00.000-06:002008-08-15T15:20:00.000-06:00Go mugs! You have quite the fan club! I love your ...Go mugs! You have quite the fan club! I love your blog. <BR/><BR/>mtn mollie <BR/>www.reinersblog.com/mtnm/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-12478568718630407192008-08-15T12:45:00.000-06:002008-08-15T12:45:00.000-06:00oops, that would be a big dumpster, not a bug dump...oops, that would be a big dumpster, not a bug dumpster.Pipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17455146369722404052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-81347862402376779792008-08-15T12:43:00.000-06:002008-08-15T12:43:00.000-06:00oh, and Mugwump. I love your blogs, they are great...oh, and Mugwump. I love your blogs, they are great and inspired mine!Pipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17455146369722404052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-59261402184276037312008-08-15T12:09:00.000-06:002008-08-15T12:09:00.000-06:00I used to have a pulling back horse, he was an OTT...I used to have a pulling back horse, he was an OTTB, and just came to me as a puller. Broke halters, leads, pulled a pipe fence out of the ground. Pretty amazing. We worked on it a lot, but it could strike anytime. what finally cured him was a fortuitous stupidity. <BR/><BR/>I had tied him to a bug dumpster, just for a moment to get the hose. When that hose moved, he lurched backwards, and that dumpster fell over, and followed him. He pulled it about 6 feet before he finally stopped, freaked out and exhausted. I got him to take a step forward to get him untied. He never pulled back again. <BR/>I do think however, that he could have won a dumpster pull, if they had one at the fair. <BR/>Again I would not recommend this, but it sure worked to show him that pulling only got a giant orange thing to come after you. <BR/><BR/>And if I may plug my blog which a just started, it's called carpe pipkin.Pipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17455146369722404052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-42961231184221300862008-08-15T11:50:00.000-06:002008-08-15T11:50:00.000-06:00If it helps I just weaned a filly that was born th...If it helps I just weaned a filly that was born the beginning of march. She became really attached to her sister so we took mom away for a couple weeks.<BR/>She wasn't really upset at all. She screamed a few times but that was it because her sister is not her surrogate mom. My horses are out 24/7 so they already know how to be a horse by this time and you can take them away from mom or mom away from baby without anything more than a couple screams. Makes weaning pretty darn easy because they aren't frantically looking for mom when they have a surrogate mom that they can't nurse off of.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14523660446608394720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-2484473528034701962008-08-15T11:49:00.000-06:002008-08-15T11:49:00.000-06:00heidi- for what its worth here is how we do it at ...heidi- for what its worth here is how we do it at our barn:<BR/><BR/>Start with a horse that stands tied. you've already got that. <BR/><BR/><B>Don't</B> use bungies! Or at least thats not what I recommend. <BR/><BR/>Our crossties are very very wide, so if yours have bars on the sides which are very close in this may or may not work. <BR/><BR/>Stand your horse in the cross ties. Clip one side to your horse. <BR/><BR/>(note: we always have the quick release attached to the barn, not the horse. Maybe everyone does this already but its worth mentioning anyway.)<BR/><BR/>Clip the tie on the other side to itself to form a loop. <BR/><BR/>Use a long rope, usually a lunge rope, just like mugs does. Run the rope through the loop formed by the cross tie rope. <BR/><BR/>Pause. If they flip out for some reason you can let a little rope out if you need to in order to get them to relax again. When everything is settled down...<BR/><BR/>Keep the rope in your hand but proceed as you normally would to tack up. Groom, pick hooves, saddle. (sometimes a helper is nice, but not neccesary if you can get creative with making sure you have some kind of grip on the rope. If a little slips during the freaking out its not a problem.)<BR/><BR/>During this time they may or may not freak out at various steps. We dont usually have much of a problem with a horse that stands tied already. Sometimes horses will decide that since there is nothing in front of them they would like to mosey off. Then they hit the end of the line. Most accept this restriction. Some are shocked and freak out a little. Many will calm themselves down with no action or rope loosening, if they dont then give them a little line until they calm down. <BR/><BR/>We keep a rope run through a loop for several trips to the crossties when they are learning. When we feel confident that they will respect the cross ties and give to the pressure then we clip them on both sides. <BR/><BR/>Initially we just go about our business as usual so that there is minimal new stuff/stressors introduced. Once a horse respects pressure and we've got them cliped on both sides successfully usually they're done. Recently we had a little gelding that remained pretty wiggly. <BR/><BR/>We took a page from mugs again and we tied him and let him stand there. We're a little wimpier than mugs so I sat there and polished tack while he figured out the whole standing still thing. He spent a little time being upset but because I knew from experience that he would stand I just ignored it and kept polishing. <BR/><BR/>Once he stood still for long enough, and I had finished with the tack. I groomed him and put him away. I didn't spend as long as mugs does because I couldnt sit with him for hours, we needed the crossties for other horses (I dont like the ones in the main barn as much) and I'm too wimpy to leave hores alone in the crossties. I spend all day with visions of coming back to a horse with a broken neck or other injuries. <BR/><BR/>Sorry for the long post but I have a word on bungie ties. <BR/><BR/>I understand why people like them. The give can be comforting to horse and human, hopefully when they snap they do it closer to the horse end than the wall end and then there's no trouble with having a horse hit in the face. I've had a horse flip out and fall over in bungie ties and they stretched no problem to the floor. <BR/><BR/>That all being said I think your best bet if you want to use bungie ties is 1) have the horse in a situation, like a wash stall, where they cannot back up forever. 2) Dont leave them alone with those ties on. I'm wimpy and try not to leave them alone much even with regular ropes but with bungies you want someone there to keep the horse from going forward too far and snapping the ropes. A bungie with a horse tied in a stall makes a lot of sense for that reason, or a trailer. In an aisle I think it is more dangerous. <BR/><BR/>Just my two cents. Good luck.gillianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12116128687769268871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-14566700688640904282008-08-15T10:28:00.000-06:002008-08-15T10:28:00.000-06:00Actually Mugs, I'm curious too. I've worked in sh...Actually Mugs, I'm curious too. I've worked in show barns where all the foals were imprinted at birth, halter trained as a weanling, taken short rides in the trailer with Mama, hooves trimmed, groomed, used to clippers, etc. <BR/><BR/>Now, unlike a lot of the BYBs and small time breeders here in Oregon, we DID NOT wean until 6 months of age. I see foals weaned here at 2-4 months with 3 months seeming to be average. My thought is that like puppies, foals need this time with other foals and Mama to learn how to be a horse. Orphaned, bottle raised foals tend to miss out on that and think they're people, not horses. Your thoughts on early weaning and minimal handling?ORSunshinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07212211388313548187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-46317005569823799372008-08-15T08:12:00.000-06:002008-08-15T08:12:00.000-06:00Dear Mugwumps, I have no weanlings, nor any desire...Dear Mugwumps, I have no weanlings, nor any desire to ever raise one from scratch, but I'm curious as to why you say you'd prefer them unhandled until age 2. Does it preserve some behaviors that you find necessary, later, or preserve their minds?Redsmomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03473393390441394419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-38155631780567628722008-08-14T21:33:00.000-06:002008-08-14T21:33:00.000-06:00loneplainsman-I'm not that observant. I let water ...loneplainsman-<BR/>I'm not that observant. I let water tanks overflow,leave cattle gates open, forget to tie my last horse far enough away, so the others chew on my saddle....<BR/>I just wander off, when I see a horse relaxed, I'll wander back and untie him. If he starts to squall, I'll walk off again, (hopefully to turn off the water)<BR/>half assed, I'm not that busy. Really.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-51298388678498442172008-08-14T21:13:00.000-06:002008-08-14T21:13:00.000-06:00Mugwump- your method makes sense for the situation...Mugwump- your method makes sense for the situation, also you have a lot more clients than I do. :)<BR/><BR/>I've worked with the people where I have been there in person and we had time to scan the area for hazards and get people away when the horse flipped out. Most of this was outside at a tie rack, too, not a barn aisle where any number of things can go on.<BR/><BR/>I did lease a couple of mares before and immediately after I bought Jasmine... The owners were the no-tie types and damn, those mares capitalized on it. They were both in their late teens and couldn't be reliably tied for any length of time. Putting up with those two just made me decide that any critter I work with has to tie.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Syndey- the bungee ties freak me out, too. One lady at the barn tried to convert me to a bungee tie that had VELCRO at the other end. Yeah, that's great for tying a 1200 lb animal.The Half-Assed Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04695509301546368888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-47836119811312702802008-08-14T21:10:00.000-06:002008-08-14T21:10:00.000-06:00Just a question for clarification...You said: Onc...Just a question for clarification...<BR/><BR/>You said: Once I commit to tying them, they stay there until they are quiet.<BR/><BR/>So does that mean you're constantly monitoring them, wating for the EXACT moment they stop and quit (at least for the first few times), or do you basically go about your business and only check in occasionally (which would mean you bring them in EVENTUALLY, but not necessarily right away)??<BR/><BR/>Sorta nit-picky, but I'm curious.loneplainsmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13872076354276714175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-29886744784642315472008-08-14T20:17:00.000-06:002008-08-14T20:17:00.000-06:00half-assed-I think we're on the same page. The onl...half-assed-I think we're on the same page. The only difference is when we start the babies. If I had my way, they'd be wild little rabbits with no handling at all until they were two.<BR/>My advice about the long rope is for a horse that chronically sucks back. I've seen these horses throw themselves over and into whatever they are tied to.I've seen frantic owners get hurt involving themselves in the situation.<BR/>My way keeps horses and owners safe. I try to be careful when giving advice to someone I can't see, a horse I don't know, and I can't be there to supervise. And it works. Once I commit to tying them, they stay there until they are quiet.<BR/>I don't think your so old fashioned, just practical.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-25217182225244445052008-08-14T19:20:00.000-06:002008-08-14T19:20:00.000-06:00Rope: Rope to me doesn't matter. I prefer marine b...Rope: Rope to me doesn't matter. I prefer marine braid because of the weight but I love cotton ropes with bull snaps for things like teaching young horses to tie. They are less abrasive than other rope synthetics.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Bungee cross ties: DANGEROUS, DANGEROUS, DANGEROUS!!<BR/>I have personal experience here. My friend bought bungee cross ties. She tied her gelding with them who is normally calm about everything. Mating cats ran underneath him, he pulled back, thought he wasn't really tied, the bungee snapped, HIT HIM right in the face, the snap few off where the bungee broke and went through a Plexiglas window. I still have no clue how it went through that window. I was doing stalls and just stood there with my mouth open. I'll never tie a horse with a bungee that has the individual elastic fibers covered in like rope.<BR/><BR/>I do however LOVE in trailers the bungees that are black rubber. I take off the little S hooks and put double ended snaps on each end then connect them in the tie loop on the trailer then tie my lead rope to them. <BR/>If a horse happens to fall they have a little more give and its more likely to break a snap on the bungee than your halter or lead rope. They also don't snap back like the other bungees.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14523660446608394720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-8000792554237423052008-08-14T19:05:00.000-06:002008-08-14T19:05:00.000-06:00I guess I'm way too old school on tying. I've only...I guess I'm way too old school on tying. <BR/>I've only seen weanlings started by tying for short periods of time to a (deflated) inner tube, gradually increasing and then working up to tying to a solid object, but tying needs to be taught ASAP.<BR/><BR/>I bought a mule that had been beated while tied up, most likely tied with a chain over her poll.<BR/>She has a huge indented scar behind her ears. The flesh and cartilage has a good inch-deep notch where you trim for a bridle path. The hairs grew back in white, and the deepest part of the notch never grew back hair.<BR/><BR/>That mule had to learn how to tie. I will not have an animal that does not tie.<BR/><BR/>I took her to the indoor arena and tied to her to a good solid upright post with a rope halter (Silvertip brand, really nice) and left her. She pawed a hole to China, she carried on, she fretted and worked herself up to a pretty good sweat. I don't know if it was her mule-ness or what but she never really sat down on her hindquarters and lugged for more than 10 seconds or so. It only took her a few days of that, they're smart. As soon as she figured out I wasn't going to beat her she accepted it.<BR/><BR/>I would do the same thing for a horse. Sorry. They will learn how to tie to a solid object with a reasonable (not long enough to trip over or hurt themselves) length of rope. <BR/><BR/>My trainer did this with several rehab horses. One horse was tied to a telephone pole for several afternoons. <BR/><BR/>None of her horses ever hurt themselves doing this... they may have been sore or sweaty with rub marks, but they learned how to tie and gradually let people do grooming and saddling with them.<BR/><BR/>I refuse to use elastic bands or anything with give to it. I tie to solid objects above the withers with a rope halter and proper quick release knot. <BR/><BR/>Out of the dozens of horses and mules I've worked with none of them ever hurt themselves being tied. <BR/><BR/>I've been in emergencies that required my animals to know how to tie... fire evacuation, "holyshit<BR/>call the ambulance right now someone fell off" days, etc. <BR/><BR/> IMO I think it should be required of any equine, it's just too important to let go.The Half-Assed Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04695509301546368888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-97131206954096562008-08-14T18:17:00.000-06:002008-08-14T18:17:00.000-06:00Anonymous said... >>I have never trained a h...Anonymous said... <BR/><BR/>>>I have never trained a horse to tie. When you have a weanling who has never been tied, do you start by expecting him to stand tied only a short time?<<<BR/><BR/>I'm not a lot of help there. This will probably drive some of you nuts, but I rarely halter break my weanlings, much less tie them.<BR/>If one gets hurt, we just corner them and doctor them.<BR/>I halter break as a yearling. I start to tie them as two-year-olds. I personally don't care for babies that have been handled a lot.<BR/>I do gently scratch their withers.<BR/>I do send them out if they try to kick or bite.<BR/>I herd them through gates, it gets them reading my body language.<BR/>I scratch their chest.<BR/>I run my hands down their legs.<BR/>My shoer can trim them before I can tie them.<BR/>When I do finally tie a colt, I wrap the rope a few times, tie them off and leave.They are with horses they know, that are calm, and stand quietly while tied. The colt already has been taught to give to pressure.<BR/>As soon as he pulls a time or two and then relaxes I put him up. <BR/>That's about it.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-46113015667082375672008-08-14T15:20:00.000-06:002008-08-14T15:20:00.000-06:00Mugwump: Thankfully we color-code our butt & n...Mugwump: Thankfully we color-code our butt & neck ropes. To say that it's taken time to get used to handling multiple ropes is an understatement...and no video exists from early on in my learning process.<BR/><BR/>...thank god. Hee.mlkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13055549307137836768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-9043236675103762442008-08-14T13:48:00.000-06:002008-08-14T13:48:00.000-06:00Uh, that's a "pocket" knife. I'm not sure what a ...Uh, that's a "pocket" knife. I'm not sure what a "picket" knife is. Maybe to cut a picket line. LOL. <BR/><BR/>And yes, I check several times a day to see of Mugs has updated. I'm hooked the stories and can't wait to find out what happens next!Redsmomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03473393390441394419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-39703835960917021702008-08-14T13:26:00.000-06:002008-08-14T13:26:00.000-06:00Dear Mugwump, Thanks so much for addressing the ty...Dear Mugwump, Thanks so much for addressing the tying issue so quickly after I asked you about it. I love your writing and your blog. I'm glad you're enjoying doing it. Tuesday, I did a tree tying session. Here's a link to a photo of Dude giving me the stink eye in his brand new rope halter. It went well and he didn't freak out or set back. I did get a big picket knife out of my dad's things to use just in case! I don't know if Dude knew what a rope halter was and not to even try yanking hard on it. He tried rubbing it off and he tried untying the knot, but he never yanked and went back violently. I'm planning on longer and longer sessions. He "behaves" when I'm in sight, so I watched him through the kitchen window -- very convenient for me. http://dudethedramaqueen.blogspot.com/2008/08/training-day.htmlRedsmomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03473393390441394419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-64081885974621933122008-08-14T13:10:00.000-06:002008-08-14T13:10:00.000-06:00Hey Mugs,I married into a family of authors so if ...Hey Mugs,<BR/><BR/>I married into a family of authors so if you ever need to be pointed in the right direction when it comes to agents or publishers, let me know.ORSunshinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07212211388313548187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-30000344892045205352008-08-14T10:38:00.000-06:002008-08-14T10:38:00.000-06:00Mugwump--I like your blog because you really can w...Mugwump--<BR/>I like your blog because you really can write well, and you have good practical training tips.<BR/>I have never trained a horse to tie. When you have a weanling who has never been tied, do you start by expecting him to stand tied only a short time? And then gradually extend the time? If he throws a fit, what do you do?<BR/>If there's a way to prevent problems this early, so he never associates tying with fear or with someting he doesn't have to respect, I want to do that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-80206076900219433652008-08-14T10:34:00.000-06:002008-08-14T10:34:00.000-06:00yes I have an impatient yearing now and tying her ...yes I have an impatient yearing now and tying her up every day (2 hours or so always somone within hearing distance) Has really helped.<BR/><BR/>Now Im off to find some of Laura's books ;)Justaplainsamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399124494395034612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-44922454354376824812008-08-14T10:33:00.000-06:002008-08-14T10:33:00.000-06:00I really like C.J. Box. He writes about a Wyoming ...I really like C.J. Box. He writes about a Wyoming Game Warden, Joe Pickett. There are 6 titles in the series as of the last one, "Free Fire"('07). All are set in Wyoming. Joe is one of the most fun characters I've read about in a while. He's common sense and not a hero of the hero status, but he gets his job done. He always manages to get the local authorities ticked off in the process. <BR/><BR/>Finished Laura's "Chasing Cans". Really got the feel for her characters, settings, horses etc. Great read! Now, I need to find the rest of them! Amazon seems to have some.<BR/><BR/>Also read Toni Leland's "Deadly Heritage". A little romance mixed in with a mystery. Champion Quarter Horses are being attacked by an unknown assailant at Kellie Sutton's farm. With all the other troubles Kellie is facing, dealing with the new sheriff in town was not something she wanted added to the turmoil. Quite a few different back plots along the way.<BR/><BR/>I liked your take on pull-backs. I've only witnessed one serious pull-back at the riding facility where I worked. Crazy horse (I was not fond of this mare) did the whole deal right aa we were looking at her then ended up on the ground still pulling the lead rope so tight the quick release knots had practically melted into each other. Needless to say one of the girls grabbed a pair of scissors (heavy duty, only thing close at the time) and cut the......halter. Yeah, I know. The manager asked why the halter was cut instead of the lead rope. They were nylong halters/lead ropes. Lesson learned. I wasn't in charge, watched all this happen as I was trying to calm Lena down. She was on the ground still pulling. I was working with some young people at the time. I actually thought the two young ladies acted in the best interest of the horse...but anyway...I like reading your different takes on events and problems. You have a whole heap of common sense!Lesliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00224646742863478548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-69776831411314229122008-08-14T10:15:00.000-06:002008-08-14T10:15:00.000-06:00I've always been a fan of having a horse stand tie...I've always been a fan of having a horse stand tied, no matter what, and my trainer is also that way. He has some pretty stout posts in the arena, and horses that are pissy about standing tied, or who are generally impatient, end up standing tied for most of the day to one (just like Mugs does). <BR/><BR/>It can make life interesting when you're working your horse in the arena, and one of those decides to pitch a fit every time you go by. Fortunately, my girl is used to it (born and raised in the barn) and she knows to ignore them/project alpha mare disapproval when she goes by.<BR/><BR/>My trainer has several tricks he uses that differ from Mugs. For young horses, he uses an innertube tied to the 6" x 6" patience post, with a lead rope attached. That's how the babies and the young ones learn to tie. Older horses who just need patience time get tied around the arena. He's had only one adult, full-sized horse in the barn that needed more--and he used a second rope attached to the halter and tied to another post to take the pressure off of the main rope/halter.<BR/><BR/>I've been in other barns where there's been a horse who doesn't tie, and I get wildly impatient with the pussy-footing those trainers do around the issue of "horsie doesn't wanna tie." Lots of worry about Precious's neck. Interestingly, most of those trainers are primarily dressage or hunt seat types.<BR/><BR/>(and if anyone wants to come check out my blog, feel free--it's not all horses, though--you'll have to put up with science fiction writing stuff, skiing, and teaching comments!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-33041508690063573112008-08-14T09:16:00.000-06:002008-08-14T09:16:00.000-06:00BTW, I have also read some of Laura Crum's books. ...BTW, I have also read some of Laura Crum's books. She is definitely on my top ten for horse/mystery writers. The only problem that I have had is finding the books.Kim Headleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02703952777934787135noreply@blogger.com