tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post777181336301002108..comments2024-01-03T03:28:48.980-07:00Comments on mugwump Chronicles: I Had To Start SomewhereMugwumphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01487540636265322556noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-38576965843071301312009-03-20T16:53:00.000-06:002009-03-20T16:53:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-38596098144069433882009-03-12T13:43:00.000-06:002009-03-12T13:43:00.000-06:00Candy's Girl, that's great! Sounds like he was ju...Candy's Girl, that's great! Sounds like he was just bucking out of confusion about where to put his feet and now he's building confidence about his ability to canter around those corners. Good job!fuglyhorseofthedayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14748297520774828265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-91051668372001027882009-03-11T11:53:00.000-06:002009-03-11T11:53:00.000-06:00Woo Hoo Candy's Girl!! Perfect.Woo Hoo Candy's Girl!! Perfect.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-851434414531401432009-03-11T11:13:00.000-06:002009-03-11T11:13:00.000-06:00Mugs,Just wanted to let you know that my colt figu...Mugs,<BR/><BR/>Just wanted to let you know that my colt figured out how to canter around turns without bucking. I had him canter on the straightaways and trot in the turns. I let him keep cantering if he offered it, but dropped back to the trot if he felt off balance at all. Monday night I was on him for all of 10 minutes because he cantered for a full lap and a half without bucking. I figured that was worth quitting for the day.Candy'sGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10714758020336093821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-25671547930964463272009-03-11T10:40:00.000-06:002009-03-11T10:40:00.000-06:00No. It's impossible both to describe and understan...No. It's impossible both to describe and understand in a blog. I'd love to learn more though *sigh*<BR/>But at least I am wiser than I was yesterday! Thanks, Mugs.HorseOfCoursehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15907659164579327290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-68816619359151124972009-03-11T10:14:00.000-06:002009-03-11T10:14:00.000-06:00Longtrot, I had that exact experience with my hors...Longtrot, I had that exact experience with my horse. At 3 he was solid when I started him under saddle. We did trail walks, and he would go just fine, not spooky at all, just ambled along. In the arena he was responsive, seemed to be learning great. <BR/><BR/>Then he turned 4 and I'd swear he was a doppelganger. <BR/>He spooked on the trail at the chickens he'd been walking past for a year. He spooked at the bridges, concrete, ducks, trees, bikes, *everything*. All things he's been walking or trotting past with out a second glance the previous year. He wouldn't stand for mounting, he wouldn't go forward, he wouldn't stop, wouldn't canter; you name it, if he'd been doing it well at three, at four it wasn't going to happen. <BR/><BR/>Then as a rising five year old I sent him to training for two months, and now the old Pip is back. He's responsive, solid, not spooky, (a lookie loo, but he goes) he'll go out alone or in a group, he's a real saddle horse. <BR/>Except for some fine tuning we had to work on earlier this year, he's doing great. <BR/>So yeah, I put it down to being a teenager, and we seem to be through it!Pipkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17455146369722404052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-79782116606355944812009-03-11T09:38:00.000-06:002009-03-11T09:38:00.000-06:00Longtrot- We discuss these same things continually...Longtrot- We discuss these same things continually on this blog.I'd suggest either reading back or keep on tuning in. <BR/>Pepsi was not ready mentally at two to be ridden, which would explain her initial history. She wasn't ready physically either, which explains her clumsiness. She was lucky to survive her initial owners. <BR/>HOH- The hackamore prepares a horse to neck-rein. The pressure cue is initially to the outside of the horses face, where with a snaffle it is to the inside. The face, neck and shoulders are softened by correct use of the hackamore. <BR/>My goal with a hackamore is to keep it balanced off the mid-point of the nose. <BR/>Other than reading the links I gave you I don't have much more for you. You would need to ride with one and be familiar with the concept of neck-reining, rawhide braiding, and riding with a signal bit to fully understand what I do.<BR/>I have the opportunity to ride with people over here who ride with equipment similar to yours, so I can understand it by seeing it, using it, feeling it. So I can understand what you say. Unfortunately I can't do the same for you.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-12037355802695530162009-03-11T08:20:00.000-06:002009-03-11T08:20:00.000-06:00Thanks HOC. It had occured to me we have all this ...Thanks HOC. It had occured to me we have all this emphasis on the body of a young horse, but not the mind. It got me thinking we probably don't know nearly as much about the mental aspects of a developing horse like we do other companion animals.<BR/><BR/>The 2 year old Mugs was training sounded like the body was ready, but is the mind? is the mind of a 2 year old the same as a 4 year old, etc.<BR/><BR/> I have found in my experience some horses go through a "rebellion" type stage around 4 that lasts around a year. They just seem to ask "why" more. maybe it's the equivilant of teenage years lol.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-78673892460903051172009-03-11T02:54:00.000-06:002009-03-11T02:54:00.000-06:00Thanks for the info, Mugs.I have been reading it t...Thanks for the info, Mugs.<BR/>I have been reading it through. <BR/>It seems to me as if the two-rein process has many similarities with the process of learning the horse to accept the double bridle.<BR/>Whenever you have time, I have two more questions re. the bosal as this is new to me.<BR/>If I understand it correctly, both reins are attached to one point under the horse’s cheek. How do sideways signals work? <BR/>What advantages does the bosal give you in the work compared to the snaffle?<BR/><BR/>And Longtrot, I've no idea when horses mature mentally, sorry. If you ask me some of them never do, lol!<BR/>I also believe that a born spooker dies a spooker, but get better with training. But I'm sure Mugs has some more input on this.HorseOfCoursehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15907659164579327290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-60519634607404165002009-03-10T22:37:00.000-06:002009-03-10T22:37:00.000-06:00Does anyone want to answer my question about when ...Does anyone want to answer my question about when does a horse mentally mature?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-75959941393900635942009-03-10T22:06:00.000-06:002009-03-10T22:06:00.000-06:00Great advice wrapped in a good story, just in time...Great advice wrapped in a good story, just in time for trail riding season. You are full of win!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-49097220933996447832009-03-10T19:02:00.000-06:002009-03-10T19:02:00.000-06:00Pepsi reminds me of Chevy. My friends Mustang/Bas...Pepsi reminds me of Chevy. My friends Mustang/Baskur Curly cross. She brought him to me to start under saddle. He had an explosive problem. We would be working along and randomly he would start bucking. I am not talking about crow hopping, I am talking about head between his knees bronc bucking. This went on for about two weeks, everyday I rode him. At some point in the session he would blow up. Then as suddenly as he started he stopped. He never bucked again.<BR/><BR/>His new owner rides him everywhere, including down to the local diner and ties him to the rail. He has never bucked, spooked or anything else.SOSHorseshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04060612555090353297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-86815455762508626632009-03-10T18:27:00.000-06:002009-03-10T18:27:00.000-06:00HOH- yes, same link....he has good definitions.HOH- yes, same link....he has good definitions.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-18467895987373043782009-03-10T16:34:00.000-06:002009-03-10T16:34:00.000-06:00Thanks! Pls check the last link though, it is the ...Thanks! <BR/>Pls check the last link though, it is the same as the one before?HorseOfCoursehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15907659164579327290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-14548303305168657972009-03-10T16:22:00.000-06:002009-03-10T16:22:00.000-06:00Kel, You and I have the same opinion on 'table man...Kel, <BR/>You and I have the same opinion on 'table manners'. I like giving my horse treats because he is a hog, and he will do anything/learn anything much quicker if there is a food reward.<BR/><BR/>However, touching me in any way, especially nosing pockets for treats gets 'em popped. He's not allowed to 'beg' either. AND, if he gets over-eager and tries to take my entire hand with the treat, he gets WHOMPED. Guess how many times that's happened...? lol<BR/><BR/>Must have good manners. Must.Charhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08898020062632310130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-22512054706437164312009-03-10T16:12:00.000-06:002009-03-10T16:12:00.000-06:00sidepull:http://horses.about.com/od/bitsexplained/...sidepull:<BR/>http://horses.about.com/od/bitsexplained/a/sidepulls.htm<BR/><BR/>I will use a sidepull for my first 5-10 rides. I like to work through the initial "getting to know you" phase without being in their mouth.<BR/><BR/>o-ring or loose ring snaffle:http://horses.about.com/od/choosingandusingtack/p/loosering.htm<BR/>I put my horses in this type of snaffle for a year. I ride them with eight-foot split reins, no cavesson or drop-nose band and a leather chin strap, solely for the purpose of holding the bit in place<BR/><BR/>bosal or hackamore:<BR/>http://www.cowboyway.com/What/WhatIsBosal.htm<BR/>I use a hackamore between the ages of 3 and 6. This develops the head carriage and position for a finished bridle horse.<BR/><BR/>Two-rein: http://www.elvaquero.com/The%20Two%20Rein.htm<BR/><BR/>I two-rein for at least a year in order to develop my bridle horse<BR/><BR/>full bridle:<BR/>http://www.elvaquero.com/The%20Two%20Rein.htm<BR/><BR/>This is where my finished horse ends up.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-34812837478044287162009-03-10T15:30:00.000-06:002009-03-10T15:30:00.000-06:00Mugs, could you help me out with a couple of thing...Mugs, could you help me out with a couple of things? When I read what you write I don't always understand.<BR/>Is a bosal the same as a sidepull? If not, what's the difference?<BR/>And what kind of hackamore do you mean when using it together with a snaffle on a young horse? I understand that there are different types?<BR/>And what is the reason for using both bits? When do you use the first, and when do you use the other?<BR/>What do you mean with a "traditional bridle horse". <BR/>Best regards from the dressage nerd that tries to broaden the horizonHorseOfCoursehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15907659164579327290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-54341681887605719562009-03-10T14:32:00.000-06:002009-03-10T14:32:00.000-06:00SL - Yes. It was what I was thinking was most lik...SL - Yes. It was what I was thinking was most likely. We weren't doing a lot of it either because I knew it is a tough exercise for him. I had just added it in to start to help build him up. I'll just back off on the tighter circles in the spiral for awhile. I just needed reassurance that being so heavy on the bit wasn't what I wanted from him.<BR/><BR/>Plus, everyone (his owner who doesn't ride mostly) just seems to keep saying the draw reins are the answer with him. I've just had too good of results (to her praise and surprise) without them to feel he needs them.autumnblazehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14261052609848445921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-89733261748559623382009-03-10T14:03:00.000-06:002009-03-10T14:03:00.000-06:00Autumnblaze said " We were working on small, colle...Autumnblaze said " We were working on small, collected circles at the sitting trot, spiraling in and out... When circles were tight, he was really leaning on the bit, I was really carrying him. He isn't in the best shape of his life... "<BR/><BR/>I think you answered your own question. Spiraling on small, collected circles in self-carriage may require more fitness than he has right now. I agree with HOC on how to handle the leaning, but would also suggest that you reduce the difficulty of the exercise at first by keeping the circles bigger (like 20m down to only 15m) at first, or by walking the smaller circles. It won't take long to build his fitness up, but this "simple" exercise is fairly tough when they're out of shape. <BR/><BR/>No need to pull out the drawreins, IMO :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-54564155152130893322009-03-10T12:20:00.000-06:002009-03-10T12:20:00.000-06:00Thanks for your thoughts. Honestly, I was thinkin...Thanks for your thoughts. Honestly, I was thinking that he was trying but that smaller circles were tough so he'd lean on the bit more. I'll keep working on it but cut out the smaller one/s on that drill until I feel he's more solid in the back end and able to support himself through it. I was thinking that is most likely the case, but I'm still learning the feel for a lot of things. It helps to hear others thoughts on the things that come up in my head when riding. :)autumnblazehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14261052609848445921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-64304818009778890342009-03-10T12:02:00.000-06:002009-03-10T12:02:00.000-06:00I should have said don't have anyone elses brain t...I should have said don't have anyone elses brain to pick at the moment. Sorry, I was distracted by someone as I was posting. I would assume the dressage corner would be a good corner for the/a answer to come from.autumnblazehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14261052609848445921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-29664889549614775682009-03-10T12:01:00.000-06:002009-03-10T12:01:00.000-06:00Ok, I'll throw in my suggestions before going out ...Ok, I'll throw in my suggestions before going out traning my own:<BR/><BR/>Here I am tempted to say the same as Mugs, "I don't care why he does it but he isn't allowed to do it" or however you put it, Mugs?<BR/><BR/>Don’t let him hang on the bit, whatever the cause is. <BR/>I would solve it by asking him for more engagement/energy. <BR/>Ride forward!<BR/>And then balance up with a half halt again.<BR/>If he gets too deep, raise both hands for a while when asking for forwards. Then down,and soften again.<BR/>If he is in an OK form but just leans on the bit, don't give him anything to hang on to. Again make a half halt, soften and check if he is carrying himself. Maybe you have to play with the fingers a bit, or ask him to flex, and then soften.<BR/>But the main problem I'd say is lack of engagement behind.<BR/>I would also make sure that the circle doesn't get too small so you risk asking him for more than he can handle at the moment.HorseOfCoursehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15907659164579327290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-73988098504032022332009-03-10T11:43:00.000-06:002009-03-10T11:43:00.000-06:00Pretty much anyone. I'm not picky just trying to ...Pretty much anyone. I'm not picky just trying to sort through it in my own head. I don't have anyone else to kick around at this moment.autumnblazehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14261052609848445921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-54911723241086079092009-03-10T11:16:00.000-06:002009-03-10T11:16:00.000-06:00Autumnblaze- I am a bit uncertain. Do you want som...Autumnblaze- I am a bit uncertain. Do you want some input from the dressage corner on this? Or was it a question to Mugs?HorseOfCoursehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15907659164579327290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-39873074122343885342009-03-10T10:04:00.000-06:002009-03-10T10:04:00.000-06:00What a great story. I can relate pretty wall to th...What a great story. I can relate pretty wall to this as I have a Belgian/QH cross. He's not huge but at 15.2 hands and about 1,500 lbs. and a neck the size of Texas, he is quite the handfull. <BR/><BR/>We have had so many Come to Jesus meetings over the years and we are finally making some great strides. <BR/><BR/>It is so amazing that such a big horse can be scared of such small things, but he is such a big baby. I ended up on the ground a few months ago because he spooked at a squirrel. Yes, an 11 year old giant horse scared of a squirrel. It happened so fast I didn't even have time to react. <BR/><BR/>Oh, and if he doesn't want to go the way I want him to go, he has been known to spin around like mad and try to go the other way. Amazing how fast he can do that and how "bendy" he can be when he wants. <BR/><BR/>You gotta love a draft. I sure do.Belgian-Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03452352108064504489noreply@blogger.com