tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post7339073085097074298..comments2024-01-03T03:28:48.980-07:00Comments on mugwump Chronicles: Clinics and SuchMugwumphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01487540636265322556noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-10857443443877628552009-04-25T16:42:00.000-06:002009-04-25T16:42:00.000-06:00So this is pretty late here, but I spent a month a...So this is pretty late here, but I spent a month at Martin Black's Horsemanship School back in February and as an english bloke who only learned a few years ago that horses are what I'm all about it certainly changed a lot about how I do things.<br /><br />I <A HREF="http://glenatron.livejournal.com/tag/texas" REL="nofollow">wrote it up at the time</A>, which may be interesting to you or other people visiting here and wondering about how Martin teaches, although my inexperienced view is certainly different from what a lot of readers here would probably get from it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-56852836129114341482009-03-30T17:38:00.000-06:002009-03-30T17:38:00.000-06:00Just found your blog. Very interesting. I've bee...Just found your blog. Very interesting. I've been riding over 30 years. Had lots of instructors in different disciplines. Some good,bad and indifferent. But I have learned something from each one. You have to know what to take with you and what to leave behind. I laughed about the clinicians trying to sell something! Proud to say I haven't bought a gadget yet! I'll lurk here again sometime....<BR/>Jilljillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04931595804895656194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-20390124049981014482009-03-27T12:39:00.000-06:002009-03-27T12:39:00.000-06:00The last CA clinic I went to he gave a full on lec...The last CA clinic I went to he gave a full on lecture about horse slaughter.. people were getting up and walking out. I am sure his manager was about to have a heart attack. I like that he speaks his mind even if it is not the popular opinion. I have seen him twice and each time I come away with something useful, although the second time he was much more commercial than the first. The second time a little girl in the audience asked him what he liked about his mare Mindy. He actually got all choked up talking about her. I have to tell you, (this is so dumb) but when he rides his mare - Mindy - it is almost a "religious" experience. I thought that I was going to start balling... I have seen him ride the gelding Dually but the connection isn't quite there. <BR/><BR/>Tim Unzicker... wow I saw him ride a bridle horse at SBF in Reno a couple of years ago and was truly impressed. He rode pretty, the horse worked like a dream, would love to see more of him.horsegeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08614136458074519322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-66668708769326342542009-03-27T09:26:00.000-06:002009-03-27T09:26:00.000-06:00Joy said:“I've also seen CA. He was interesting. M...Joy said:<BR/>“I've also seen CA. He was interesting. Mostly it was common sense he was talking. But a huge chunk of his time was spent talking about the blocker tie ring. That I could do without.”<BR/><BR/>I almost hate to admit this, but I saw CA and the blocker tie rings on RFD and decided to give them a try (which if I had known they were made out of snaffle bits, I would have made my own). I’m not really into NH, and I’m in the Mugs camp of teaching a horse to tie – tie them with equipment that won’t break to a structure that won’t break and let them figure it out. However, in 25 years with horses, Mocha is the first one that did not work for. Her fear of being tied was so insurmountable, I was truly afraid she was going to kill herself. So I admit I was intrigued with the blocker tie rings. I bought them, tried them and I kid you not, within 5 minutes, being tied was no longer an issue. <BR/><BR/>I guess sometimes you have to keep an open mind and go with what works. <BR/><BR/>However, I have to also admit, if I went to a clinic to learn about riding and he spent a ton of time on tie blockers, I’d be annoyed ;)mocharockshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13611067866943319570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-68781047062588766302009-03-27T08:50:00.000-06:002009-03-27T08:50:00.000-06:00OMG! I signed up for a Ricky Spinks reining and w...OMG! I signed up for a Ricky Spinks reining and working cow horse clinic in April. Has anyone heard of him? It is being sponsored by the Louisiana Stock Horse Association.Redsmomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03473393390441394419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-25103950906604518212009-03-27T06:36:00.000-06:002009-03-27T06:36:00.000-06:00Mugs:YES, thats the Tom I am talking about! I have...Mugs:<BR/>YES, thats the Tom I am talking about! I have met him and have seen him show that ZeZes Pepto Cat and that is a heck of a horse. He just won the NRCHA world show in the hackamore on that horse with a pretty big score. I have met Bozo. He is a nice guy. I had a gelding that I showed in Reined Cow horse a couple of times, the very first time I showed him, I was in tears before the class because I was so nervous. My friend was asking me, "Why are you so nervous? You have shown way too many times on his mother to get this nervous!" That did make me laugh but I then said, "Well, this is the first time that I have ever had to REMEMBER a pattern! I like the cutting, you just go in and put your hand down!" LOL Bozo opened the gate for me to go in and saw some tears on my cheeks and said, "Remeber, this is for FUN!" That made me laugh too and I ended up placing third with a score of 69 in the rein pattern (missed a marker)a 72 in the cow part. It was a limited class, so I didn't go down the fence. When I came out I was cooling my horse off and Tom came over and said jokingly,"You are supposed to stop AFTER the markers." LOL But, for my first time out, I was pretty excited!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-13712642991619531772009-03-27T01:39:00.000-06:002009-03-27T01:39:00.000-06:00Great posts! Julie Goodnight is a personal favorit...Great posts! <BR/>Julie Goodnight is a personal favorite of mine too. I have a ton of rider fear and approached her after a lecture she gave and she was very gracious and gave me some quality talk without pushing the products.<BR/>It's funny. I watch different clinicians all the time on RFDTV and after a while they become stars in your eyes. Last horse expo I went to, I was looking at Tommy Garland's booth and about crapped when he came around the corner and asked if he could help me. We talked driving for a bit and I asked what to do with a mare with a wry tail (not much can be done). I know Arabs sometimes have wry tails in the bloodlines and was hoping for a cure.<BR/>Anyway, I'll watch anyone with a horse on a string. Local or national. <BR/>Watched a Kenny Harlow clinic with a rogue horse not to long ago and I made sure to tell him that was the best clinic with a rank horse I ever saw. Used some of his techniques with my witch mare and saw an attitude change because of it.<BR/>I have yet to go to a lecture or clinic and not come out with some info to hang onto. Well I might take that back - went to a "mystical" clinic and felt sorry for the lady teaching it.<BR/>She went way overboard and when her horse would not listen, it was not his fault. I can't believe I gave an hour of my life to that lady. You could see eyes rolling up in people's head as she spoke.<BR/>I returned to horses after a 30 year absence (had backyard driving ponies) and was shocked how things have changed. <BR/>My first horse put me on my back when I was 17 because she was freaked out about something and I thought I could not let her get away with that. Such a dumba&& I was.<BR/>It's better now.<BR/>I own CA halters and have used them and some of his techniques on my baby (suprise and then orphaned at 5 weeks) who is now approaching two. <BR/>A lot of the "magic" the tv trainers make is because they get you to spend time working your horse and to think about how they respond. My colt is a good one because I can take the time to work with him. We learn together.Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02417389740944857682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-76559052679445081742009-03-26T22:05:00.000-06:002009-03-26T22:05:00.000-06:00Slippin' - Do you mean Tom Neel who rides the Pept...Slippin' - Do you mean Tom Neel who rides the Peptos Cat horses in cowhorse? I know him! He's always one of my favorite turnbacks for herd work.<BR/>My dream team for help is Tom Neel, Marilyn Peters for turnback and Bozo Rogers and Tim Unzicker in my corners if I'm in a derby.<BR/>None of them are the tippy top, but they're all pretty damn good.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-29920069737521566612009-03-26T21:57:00.001-06:002009-03-26T21:57:00.001-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-24216053182663830762009-03-26T21:57:00.000-06:002009-03-26T21:57:00.000-06:00Slippin' -Thanks! I shouldn't have sounded so defe...Slippin' -Thanks! I shouldn't have sounded so defensive, since I've learned a lot from some of the big names. But you're right. Only by catching a sentence or watching a move that caught my eye. Then I always had to go back to the smaller potatoes to hash out what I saw or heard.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-66541753944842944792009-03-26T17:16:00.000-06:002009-03-26T17:16:00.000-06:00Mugs, I wouldn't dream of going to a big name trai...Mugs, <BR/>I wouldn't dream of going to a big name trainer. I don't like the "rushed" feeling that you get when you are there or taking a lesson. I have never had a big enough check book for any of them to even LOOK my way, but even if I did, I wouldn't go to them. I Have gone to a few big time cutters for lessons and they helped me quite a bit, but they seemed like they were always on the run. I have been to Lindy Burch, LOVED her, she was very nice and courteous and I felt that she really ment what she said, when she told me that she really liked my mare. I think that she is a no nonsense type of person and wouldn't tell you that unless she ment it. <BR/>I have also been to Bill Freeman. GREAT guy! He LOVED my mare and always helped me in a corner at the cuttings when I lived in California. Even helped me in Texas too. <BR/>Mike Mowery is another good one. Really quiet guy, but he is honest...<BR/>Tom Neel is another really good guy...and he isn't big time, but he dang sure is honest and he is one that WILL ride your horse. I have heard lots of good things about him and how he spends time with you AND your horse. <BR/>Anyways, I would rather sit in your corner any day, than any of the big guys.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-86485784949123820702009-03-26T13:18:00.000-06:002009-03-26T13:18:00.000-06:00To my mind (I don't know if this is a rule or not)...To my mind (I don't know if this is a rule or not) the point of the single lead rope is to stop the rider from using more than one rein at a time. Guide the horse left, left, left, then flip the rope and go right, right, right. You can't over handle the reins, which is extremely important.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-71261096846105881622009-03-26T13:10:00.000-06:002009-03-26T13:10:00.000-06:00Just to clarify... I meant I couldn't wait to see ...Just to clarify... I meant I couldn't wait to see how the beginners in the video handled all this rope-tossing-over-the-head business. I could probably do it and my mare wouldn't care... she probably wouldn't even care if I did hit her in the head with it. <BR/><BR/>The idea (and this is both a CA and Parelli thing) is that your horse should be desensitized to the rope, stick, string, etc. You pet them with them, toss them around their entire bodies, throw thom on the ground, etc, until the horse pays the actual tool no mind. It's your body language, not the stick, that tells it to move. The stick/string just is, as someone else said, an extension of the arm, to reinforce the body language. How that is different that just general horse training, I fail to see.<BR/><BR/>Now, in regards to a horse "running away," they shouldn't run away just from a tap, but my mare will get all worked up if she is trying to avoid the cue... the idea is to keep cueing, and stop as soon as they try. I don't know... my hors knows how to give to pressure, she she's never dragged me around, and anytime she has taken me by surprise and actually pulled the leadrope away, she usually just plants her feet and looks sheepish... when I first got her, and was struggling with respect on the ground, she actually aimed a kick so well that it just barely tagged my hand... just enough to kick the leadrope away from me. I was too busy picking my jaw up off the ground to discipline her. Thank god that problem is resolved... <BR/><BR/>So, getting back to the halter/leadrope thing, a question: What exaclty is the point of swinging the rope over the horse's head rather than just tying the lead into a loop rein? <BR/><BR/>Sorry for rambling.Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13919593643799649732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-4075639659040873902009-03-26T12:09:00.000-06:002009-03-26T12:09:00.000-06:00Thanks Brown Eyed Cowgirl- I really don't know muc...Thanks Brown Eyed Cowgirl- I really don't know much about them. Laura Crum emailed me and told me ropers use them some, she had tried them and didn't find them too severe. She's still not posting cause her dead-line is looming.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-36286025838759569692009-03-26T11:38:00.000-06:002009-03-26T11:38:00.000-06:00Mugs-I'm gonna stick my nose in here on the chain ...Mugs-I'm gonna stick my nose in here on the chain mouthpiece and barrel racing.<BR/><BR/>Angie-this entirely depends on what type of "chain" mouthpiece you are referring to. There are chain mouthpieces out there that have large, smooth links and are usually set in a gag or 1/2 gag type style. These are not as severe as a person would think.<BR/><BR/>Of course, if you are referring to a bike chain type mouthpiece-I would run away from that advice.<BR/><BR/>Really, what type of bit you use depends on your horse's running style-have a horse with a lot of natural rate and not too much tendency to drop it's shoulders and a full gag will probably work. Need a little extra rate and help lifting his shoulders going around the barrel and you will probably need a half gag(this is what most barrel racers use).<BR/>The mouthpiece you select(and be prepared to change as your horse advances)really depends on how light in the mouth your horse is-a light mouth and you won't need much "bite", a horse that isn't as sensitive will need something that he can feel and will respond too.<BR/><BR/>I've had horses that I can practice on with just a slow twist snaffle, but need a tad more leverage when they are running and I've had horses that need more bit when practicing(to keep them correct)and can run them in almost nothing. It all really depends on your horse and how you use your hands. Hope that helps.BrownEyed Cowgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03610547057139295854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-5086873826626107672009-03-26T10:44:00.000-06:002009-03-26T10:44:00.000-06:00Of everything you've said I think the most importa...Of everything you've said I think the most important is, "I don't need them to be approved, graduated or certified. They just need to know something I don't."<BR/><BR/>With respect to the "cap" wearing, hero worshiping groupies... a post you might find funny.... <BR/><BR/>http://crazyhorsewoman.blogspot.com/2009/03/i-believe.htmlChelsihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05045101705493626989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-34715989199685881682009-03-26T09:55:00.000-06:002009-03-26T09:55:00.000-06:00On riding with halters and one lead rope. I've don...On riding with halters and one lead rope. I've done it. Since my colts were worked with ropes and not bothered by them they didn't worry about flipping the rope over their head. <BR/>I went to using side-pulls because it simulated the direct rein of a snaffle bit more than a rope halter. The rope halter works more like a hackamore.<BR/>If I was going straight to a ackamore I would still use a halter.<BR/>I'm a firm believer in getting the colt moving without my interference. I walk, trot and lope (usually) without ever touching what's on their head, so it doesn't matter that much what's hanging on their face.<BR/>That would be the Ray Hunt influence.<BR/>I do bit them within a week after crawling on their back.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-42090205404910084632009-03-26T09:43:00.000-06:002009-03-26T09:43:00.000-06:00Anon - I don't know about chain bits personnally, ...Anon - I don't know about chain bits personnally, they don't come into my world.<BR/>I do have a little insight though. There is a fairly basic training trick for "snafle-bitters" who are becoming dull in the snaffle bit.<BR/>A few days before a show the trainer will put the horse in an O-ring which has had the mouth piece replaced with bicycle chain. <BR/>The horse isn't ridden in it, but wears it 24/7 for two or three days. It makes the horse extremely tender (sore) mouthed without leaving marks.<BR/>Freaked out? So was I. I prefer to teach my horse their job rather than going to tricks like that one.<BR/>It seems to me the chain bits would be more of the same. But I'm all ears if somebody with experience using them could explain them to me.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-68354041034151185422009-03-26T09:20:00.000-06:002009-03-26T09:20:00.000-06:00Hey Mugs this is off topic but what do you think o...Hey Mugs this is off topic but what do you think of bits with chain mouthpieces. I am starting to barrel race and I have noticed that quite a few racers use a chain mouthpiece bit and they love them. One woman told me that she has tried hers on many horses and the horses all loved the mouthpieces. On the other hand I know many people who think that they are harsh and cruel. What do you think?<BR/><BR/>Thanks AngieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-78336748410794149212009-03-26T08:24:00.000-06:002009-03-26T08:24:00.000-06:00I watched Brandi Lyons give a clinic in AZ a few y...I watched Brandi Lyons give a clinic in AZ a few years ago and thought she was very good. I presume she is much like her father, in that she is very precise and was adament that each student "get" what she was asking them to do.<BR/><BR/>I would love to watch an Al Dunning or Les Voigt clinic. Charmayne James also tops my list of people I would like to see.<BR/><BR/>I have to admit, I'd much rather watch a clinic than actually participate in one. I like being able to see and study the whole effect of horse and rider.<BR/><BR/>It's sad to see what Parelli has become. I attended one of his clinics about 12 years ago and thought he was really good. I still use a lot of his original 7 Games methods and like the results.<BR/><BR/>My mom bought CA's uber expensive halter/leadrope and stick a couple years back. I held up my handmade rope halter/attached long leadrope and $5 buggy whip and asked her Why? But I have to admit-dang, I like his halter.<BR/><BR/>And all the riding with halters? Ray Hunt! That is how he expected everyone to put the first few rides on their colts at his clinics. The point was just to get the colt's feet moving and not have a person hanging on their mouths the first few rides. Parelli seems to have perverted that method into some sort of riding style.BrownEyed Cowgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03610547057139295854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-9561052460522815012009-03-26T08:19:00.000-06:002009-03-26T08:19:00.000-06:00OK guys - one more time on the small time trainers...OK guys - one more time on the small time trainers comments - yes it makes me touchy, but now that I've had my coffee I can actually get to my point. I have known very big name trainers who wouldn't give a newby the time of day unless they had a very fat check book to wave around. Many, many, many.<BR/>Groups who came in looking for help were shoved off on assistants,(that would be me).So were people with only one horse, crummy trailers, kids who came along, I could keep going. If they began to show promise they would be picked over and taken unless the smaller level trainer had developed some client loyalty.<BR/>Clients found and developed by said small named trainers are often lured away by the bigger names if said client has the appropriate size check book.<BR/>It makes us insecure, grabby and anxious. It doesn't make us bad trainers. A smaller trainer gives more one-on-one attention, (we have to, we're desperate) and will actually ride your horse (see above).<BR/>We're also more affordable because we have to compete somehow.<BR/>What I'm getting at is, go with the trainer who rides like you want, treats horses like you want and actually looks out for you or your horse. Which may be the big name, but could also be a talented up-and-comer who needs a break.<BR/><BR/>Quietann- I am very fond of both Sally Swift and Jane Savoie - They're not just for dressage riders!<BR/>Did you know the stirrup length and movement, seat placement and feel is about the same in a good cutting saddle as a dressage saddle? We may have the "cutters slump" but our shoulders, hips and heels create an exact line.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-27750918831972760022009-03-26T07:55:00.000-06:002009-03-26T07:55:00.000-06:00"If I ride with a clinician I do every single thin..."If I ride with a clinician I do every single thing they say. I never tell them what I think or what my old trainer said, I NEVER tell them how they differ from the last clinician I went to."<BR/><BR/>Amen! This is so rare. And appreciated by clinicians.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-67690289406460148632009-03-26T07:42:00.000-06:002009-03-26T07:42:00.000-06:00Mugs,I would come ride with you anytime, even thou...Mugs,<BR/><BR/>I would come ride with you anytime, even though you were one of those money grubbing, insecure, small time, barn sharing trainers; you sound like a you are blast and you are FULL of information.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08999907900440978914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-59014703068435008092009-03-26T07:07:00.000-06:002009-03-26T07:07:00.000-06:00I actually enjoyed the Clinton Anderson clinic I w...I actually enjoyed the Clinton Anderson clinic I went to last weekend. Like posted before, it was a lot of common sense. Nothing was actually new, it was just approached from a different way. <BR/>EveryoneThinks- The stick is actually supposed to be just an "extension of your arm." If you've seen people's horses running away, then that's a big problem.<BR/>But I agree, Parelli is a circus performer. He uses a giant ball and cow colored barrels (which he sells for some outrageous price). I feel he's just trying to perform, not actually make a better rider. He and his wife are actually terrible riders. She, especially, has the most horrible position in the saddle that I have ever seen.<BR/>The thing I hate most about Parelli, is that he STARTS his program in a halter and a lead rope. IMO, riding in a halter and a lead rope should be reserved for kids and broke ponies, or a very well trained horse that can work off your legs and seat. I think it's absolutely asinine to start a horse bareback let alone with no bridle.<BR/>I have also noticed that those who proclaim to be avid Parelli followers have the pushiest, most disrespectful horses on the ground. They are so desensitized that they'll stand on top of you without fear. As a former farrier's apprentice, that drove me nuts. I'd rather have a little bit of healthy fear than blatant disrespect.<BR/>At least C.A. says you're allowed to whack your horse a good one if he's being an ass.Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887859946030234777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-12784390613520008862009-03-26T06:42:00.000-06:002009-03-26T06:42:00.000-06:00mugwump said... I would like you to know that I wa...mugwump said... I would like you to know that I was one of those money grubbing, insecure, small time, barn sharing trainers and I was lots of fun, thank you very much.Still am dammit."<BR/><BR/>Im not for a min doupting you are fun, or that I wouldnt hang out with you If I didnt live on the other side of North America! But ETTGD, she was asking who to aproach. Not saying all barn sharing trainers are bad (hell I dont even have that! Everything is living with its owners at the moment!) But in my area the Biger the trainer is the more open they would be to someone learning off them.Justaplainsamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399124494395034612noreply@blogger.com