tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post6776665758851410321..comments2024-01-03T03:28:48.980-07:00Comments on mugwump Chronicles: I Just Gotta Say....Mugwumphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01487540636265322556noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-72621747117377495672009-09-09T18:57:33.772-06:002009-09-09T18:57:33.772-06:00Any tool can be used correctly...or not. The one ...Any tool can be used correctly...or not. The one type of horse that I will give treats from the saddle is a horse that have been abused to the point of 'locking down' mentally, and then exploding. A cue, then a treat, can help get them to focus on you. Use a cue first to keep them from anticipating and trying to bully. Wean them as quickly as possible. A few things that work to encourage a green horse to be comfortable are carried on by the human far too long.<br /><br /> As with all things horse related, you have to think of the boundaries and consequences and circumstances...BEFORE you start a process that may spoil the horse.kestrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03253025366100154732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-47368755996593604992009-09-09T13:22:28.782-06:002009-09-09T13:22:28.782-06:00I really enjoyed both parts of your post, Mugwump....I really enjoyed both parts of your post, Mugwump. You obviously know how to listen to a horse!<br /><br />I'm not averse to treats, when used properly. I won't defend and explain; I don't think it's that big a deal. It's just one tool in my toolbox; and I think "pressure and release" is usually best with horses.<br /><br />Fugs, that's a funny image of the clicker trainer and her horse. But if she's doing it right, she won't have to worry about it happening in the ring. "Right" means the horse *only* does that when he hears the click. He won't hear it in the ring! <br /><br />Done right, the behavior that gets click-treated becomes behavior the critter does for pleasure - in other words, it becomes its own reward.<br /><br />Ruthiehorsndogluvrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02104175548913010326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-60345891603258209752009-09-08T18:04:15.854-06:002009-09-08T18:04:15.854-06:00kel-you got it. I keep thinking I would have heard...kel-you got it. I keep thinking I would have heard a bear. They are noisy and don't really care if you see them.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-15577085265457195162009-09-08T13:20:10.107-06:002009-09-08T13:20:10.107-06:00Mugs:
You win your bet (re: if anyone got hurt wh...Mugs:<br /><br />You win your bet (re: if anyone got hurt when my gelding panicked and WHY we didn't get hurt).<br /><br />I feel like a slightly broken record, but: another great post. Thanks for them!mlkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13055549307137836768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-707138473288763262009-09-08T10:47:47.168-06:002009-09-08T10:47:47.168-06:00Who knew that treats were such a hot topic! wow.
...Who knew that treats were such a hot topic! wow. <br /><br />Great Pete story. We have mountain lions, bob cats, foxes and coyotes but no bears - thankgoodness. I have yet to see a mountain lion on the trails but my hubby heard one behind our house the other day. I really didn't believe him until our neighbor said he heard it too. Very scary. The thing with mountain lions is that you probably won't see them, but they see you all the time. We were riding at dusk one night, on a steep brushy trail with a mountain on one side and a drop off on the other and my wonderful husband says "I am surprised that we haven't seen a mountain lion" of course this was not the thing to say. All I could think about for the rest of the ride home was all the eyes that were watching us and waiting to find the right moment to pounce!horsegeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08614136458074519322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-12299971168291411102009-09-08T09:05:14.022-06:002009-09-08T09:05:14.022-06:00Oh My Word!!! I would definitely not be riding at ...Oh My Word!!! I would definitely not be riding at dusk anymore. Good Pete! And good Mugs!<br /><br />And how about if we call whatever we do to reward behaviors we like reinforcements? Would that make everyone happy? That covers both food and rest and neck scritches.rheatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13106202307295596177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-1768659639058918872009-09-07T14:31:11.134-06:002009-09-07T14:31:11.134-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.stilllearninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15917159268881119376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-72207633791822204662009-09-07T12:40:58.486-06:002009-09-07T12:40:58.486-06:00Good boy Pete!! That was a pretty exciting end to ...Good boy Pete!! That was a pretty exciting end to a pleasant ride...geez! It sure was interesting to read how the deer were handling the situation and Pete had the same instinct...very cool to be able to trust him.<br /><br />No bears around here, but lots...too many coyotes and there are bob cats and mountain lions, but I've yet to see a mountain lion. Two weeks ago, Colt and I flushed out 7 coyotes at one time from their den up on our hill...they just kept coming out...that was a lil' spooky.gtyyuphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02402170522183324256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-32702601178740441612009-09-07T10:48:44.323-06:002009-09-07T10:48:44.323-06:00stilllearning said: I don't mean to sound cran...stilllearning said: <i>I don't mean to sound cranky. I'm just amazed that this discussion continues....</i><br /><br />Well you do sound cranky and since the discussion is about treats, it will continue because people are interested in it. <br /><br />What you or Mugs or anyone else does or a says about it isn't going to change my mind either. It is a open discussion however, so it will continue until people either tire of it (like you) or Mugs does another post. It's just how it goes.anniebananniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00176242022055891984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-69455006306385737532009-09-07T06:48:54.662-06:002009-09-07T06:48:54.662-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.stilllearninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15917159268881119376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-18378710332545057302009-09-07T00:30:19.834-06:002009-09-07T00:30:19.834-06:00I give treats once in a great while but nothing mo...I give treats once in a great while but nothing more then a treat. They are usually lose in the pasture being horses. I don't like in your face horses, a friend my mom had helping her out while I was away always gave them treats. I don't know how long it took to break the habit on all the horses when I got home. I was insane, none of them had the habit before I left. <br /><br />That story was amazing kept me on the edge of my seat.<br /><br />I was riding a mare at a ranch one time, and she stopped dead then I heard the rattle and that mare backed up so damn fast. This was a mare that didn't like reverse but she sure knew what it was that day. I always check and listen before correcting my horse inappropriate behavior on a trail ride because I know there sense are better then mine. If my horse don't go forward on a trail there is usually a damn good reason. <br /><br />BarbaraWinter Storm Ranchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11858714399188125211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-8107319260915816612009-09-07T00:25:00.793-06:002009-09-07T00:25:00.793-06:00Oh yeah, my dogs BETTER sit quietly when I tell th...Oh yeah, my dogs BETTER sit quietly when I tell them to... <br /><br />And I don't use treats all the time for horses. Treats are only for special times.anniebananniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00176242022055891984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-76175234626564245452009-09-07T00:22:38.588-06:002009-09-07T00:22:38.588-06:00Now, I won't give my dogs treats as part of th...Now, I won't give my dogs treats as part of the training exercise because I've compartmentalized dogs and horses. <br /><br />As I see it, and don't have any real evidence to back it up, dogs view us as part of their pack. Packs work together to kill, eat and to protect and raise young. We leaders of the pack (or should be), we feed them, they protect us; it's a pack thing and they get that. <br /><br />Horses on the other hand although they are herding animals they don't work as a "pack." The herd offers them some protection and they do work in concert to protect each other, they don't work as a unit as pack animals do. <br /><br />It takes a lot to get them to 1) Trust us and 2) Respect us. Instilling trust is where treats come into play. <br /><br />Although it's probable that if horses respond to treats well, dogs would also. It just isn't how I've done it. <br /><br />Quite frankly, I never thought about it before: I use treats for horses and not for dogs... Interesting.anniebananniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00176242022055891984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-59008988839298546982009-09-06T22:51:53.267-06:002009-09-06T22:51:53.267-06:00My horse gets treats because I like giving them to...My horse gets treats because I like giving them to her.<br /><br />That said, I have to be very careful to give them only under very set circumstances, or she will get very pushy. So every time I go to the barn, I have some carrot pieces or apple slices, and she gets treats in the following circumstances *only*:<br /><br />1. When I hook her leadline in turnout. (I sometimes skip this one.)<br />2. *Very* occasionally, if I am leaving her on the crossties for more than a minute to go get something, use the loo, etc.<br />3. She gets 2 "carrot stretches" on each side after a ride. When I bought her, she could barely reach around, and now she will touch her flank with her nose. So I think treats help here!<br />4. Upon loading on the trailer, she gets a couple of bites of grain. This is the *only* thing her breeders gave treats for. My success in rehabbing her for trailering has turned out to depend on following their trailering routine as exactly as I can. The rehab started with her getting a bite of grain just for putting her hooves on the ramp for a few seconds, and 4 months later she self-loads and self-unloads willingly and safely, as she did when I bought her.<br /><br />5. When good local apples are in season, I will play an "apple game" with her. I take a bite of apple and she gets a bite *only* if she backs off and doesn't push me for it. We will do this until the apple is gone, so if she's very good she gets half of it, and if she's very bad she gets none. "I control your access to food" is key in working with her.<br /><br />6. When I ride her on the road, she can have a bite of (unsprayed) roadside grass if she's gone past something scary without spooking, and often when we get as far as we are going, and it's time to go home, I'll let her graze for a minute or so. And I will stop her a few times on the way back. It makes her slightly less motivated to get back to the barn as quickly as possible. She does NOT get grass if she tries to get it without me cuing her for it; in that case she gets pushed on!<br /><br />At the end of each visit to her, whatever "treats" are left over get put in her grain bucket.<br /><br />Now I do sometimes backslide, and that leads to extreme pushiness.quietannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05710112022047395861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-71043053169844009882009-09-06T21:39:26.477-06:002009-09-06T21:39:26.477-06:00I'm glad we have no people-eating animals in A...I'm glad we have no people-eating animals in Australia, except for the Far North where there are crocodiles. Well, and sharks. And snakes. But yeah, no animals with fangs stalking us in the south here!Helenhttp://castironbalcony.media2.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-75829976928979365682009-09-06T17:12:18.837-06:002009-09-06T17:12:18.837-06:00Wow how cool was that?! What a very, very good b...Wow how cool was that?! What a very, very good boy Pete is! And how awesome that you know the signs he was giving you! <br /><br />Wasn't fun while you were going thru it but sure was fun to read on the other side!!<br /><br />I think that is the biggest thing you guys and gals (trainers) have going for you as a trainers - you have the experience under your belt! You KNOW horses and have seen enough and done enough to know what to expect and what it means. <br /><br />I've had 2-3 in my entire life so I don't always "get" the signs or when my horse is being pushy in a subtle way etc. Esp. with young ones that are learning while I'M learning bout how to train the young ones too. <br /><br />Like would I be the complete dumba%& who would force a horse to go when the horse was giving signs there was danger but the monkey on the horse's back thought he was just being naughty? Geez, I sure hope not!<br /><br />I'm learnin! And it's cool... and every new experience is one more thing to add to my little tool box of riding. I'm glad I have a great person to work with as my trainer who can help me figure it out!<br /><br />I know there are 2 sides with treats... I give my horses cookies when I'm all done riding, grooming, untacking etc and sometimes randomly just for fun I will go out and give my old man of 31 yrs a big ol' handful o' cookies. <br /><br />I don't really look at treats as a big training tool, just as a feel good thing (for me) after we are all done. And sometimes I forget the cookies and sometimes I run out of cookies and haven't made it to the feed store and to me, it's just never a big deal. <br /><br />I guess I did use them once to keep a horse IN the trailer vs. rushing out backwards... if he rushed out we loaded up again and tried over... if he stopped when I said whoa, I'd give him a cookie... if he rushed out, we'd just load up again and do it as many times as we needed til he stopped when I said whoa at 1 step, 5 steps, 3 steps, 2 steps.... <br /><br />I tried that after reading your post 'bout that trail horse you'd plant a coffee can of grain further and further out on the trail and then you'd loosen the cinch and take her home for bein' good and going out on the trail and now she packs all over for her owner.<br /><br />I thought that was really cool -Shansterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04397551985965117012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-11725060640720291122009-09-06T10:16:31.770-06:002009-09-06T10:16:31.770-06:00What an exhilarating story! Wow! I can't ima...What an exhilarating story! Wow! I can't imagine the adrenaline rush - but also the incredible feeling when you realized how deep your bond with Pete was. Nice example of a true partnership.Michellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09290776916085658669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-48873375355221335432009-09-06T10:07:39.263-06:002009-09-06T10:07:39.263-06:00Damn, that's awesome - the Pete story that is....Damn, that's awesome - the Pete story that is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-12076552297393582092009-09-06T10:00:15.061-06:002009-09-06T10:00:15.061-06:00I feed treats, but I'm also very strict about ...I feed treats, but I'm also very strict about anything but the most polite behavior with Miss Mocha. She finds other ways to issue those tiny challenges...and she will shamelessly mug my husband, because if she even gives him a pleading look, he'll give her a treat.<br /><br />However, I use food treats for ground training purposes. I want her to come to the door of the stall she's in, so she gets a treat when she comes forward. I want her to wait and face the stall door until I take her halter off and release her, even if there's yummy alfalfa in her feeder, so I use a treat for incentive. These days she doesn't need my hand on the lead to enter the stall after me, or turn to face the door. She's standing there, waiting. Even with yummy alfalfa in the feeder.<br /><br />At liberty, coming in from turnout, she'll stand three feet away from me and extend her neck to full length to get her food treat, and stand there while I either put the halter on or snap my lead to the halter. A few times early on, I backed her up pretty far when she got too close and too greedy about treats. Now she keeps her careful distance.<br /><br />I also use food treats for stretching exercises. <br /><br />I don't give food treats under saddle. A soft "good girl" and a pat works for her, and I try to use it consistently when she responds correctly to something I've asked her to do. She seems to recognize the words and respond, so I know those words are in her vocabulary as a reward phrase.joycemochahttp://joycemocha.livejournal.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-17554480042824858122009-09-06T07:21:04.994-06:002009-09-06T07:21:04.994-06:00I used to use treats until my daughter took our fj...I used to use treats until my daughter took our fjord gelding to horse camp one summer. All the little girls thought he was adorable and fed him anything and everything. He came home an absolute ass. Occasionally they have an apple cut up in their grain pans, but NEVER from hand. Ever. I will not and cannot have a mugger with little children running around wanting to "pat horsie". The story with Pete is fabulous. I could feel the fear from both of you..what a wonderful horse.phaedra96https://www.blogger.com/profile/13073887491311158448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-79402058163431176542009-09-06T07:18:55.336-06:002009-09-06T07:18:55.336-06:00Oh Boy! You had me sh*tting my pants right along w...Oh Boy! You had me sh*tting my pants right along with you! To have the deer walk out like that and then have Pete concerened again...<br /><br />Would have been an interesting photo from third person perspective.Anon #2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-74153411097254721382009-09-05T23:32:34.260-06:002009-09-05T23:32:34.260-06:00Glad Pete was a good partner for you.
I respect y...Glad Pete was a good partner for you.<br /><br />I respect your method as far as not treating, I think it's a sound one and it's obviously worked very well for you. I don't use treats in my everyday work, except for a couple weeks earlier this summer where I'd give a mint every time the girls came in from the pasture. They now come trotting up when called, stop politely at the gate, and wait to be haltered. Love it. <br /><br />I'm perfectly willing to use treats or clicker-work to get through an issue on the ground if I feel like it's necessary...just haven't gotten to the necessary point yet. <br /><br />You've given me some food for thought on 'horses must stay out of my space at ALL times.' I sure don't ever want to be run over. Hmm.manymisadventureshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00269126419483167938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-44328845693339293782009-09-05T23:24:24.691-06:002009-09-05T23:24:24.691-06:00Excellent point about training a horse to keep OUT...Excellent point about training a horse to keep OUT of our space. <br />My BO had the bad timing to switch on the arena sprinlker while I was bending checking my mare's front leg tendons. I am convince it was my mare correct training that made her to bolt FORWARD and not on top of ME O_o<br /><br />I hold my breath all the second part of your post, brilliantly written story. I am new to your blog, so I do not know Pete's age. Do you think his horse-common sense comes from living in the hills? Does he live in a big herd?<br /><br />Regarding training, you are very brave or perhaps dumb or you just enjoy picking up fight ^-^ to express your beliefs. The horse world's bigotry is strong and terrifying, it is like speaking about mothering and children education. Any subject is a can of worms.<br /><br />Thank for writing so beautifully about No-BS horse-common-sense horsemanship!<br /><br />MimoMAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-41965535129406775752009-09-05T21:34:36.048-06:002009-09-05T21:34:36.048-06:00"A few years ago the news showed a video of a..."A few years ago the news showed a video of a lion dragging a deer through the Broadmoor Hotel golf course, during a tournament. In broad daylight" OMG. Been to that hotel. That freaks me out.<br /><br />Last summer a chihuaha treed a mountain lion in the backyard of a house across the street from my stables. AHAHA! Still can't figure that one out....Joyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00977898784588176802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-45874454653810162472009-09-05T17:43:54.159-06:002009-09-05T17:43:54.159-06:00I used to hand feed treats. But my trainer, my dau...I used to hand feed treats. But my trainer, my daughter, mugwump, and my horse have convinced me to alter how I feed treats. Only when I am not in the stall on arrival. Only when tied after riding. Because he was becoming more pushy, more mouthy, and I was becoming more ticked off. So now he gets treats coupled with training goals. Be quiet (instead of screaming) when I walk into barn, a treat thru the feed window. Be quiet and tie easily after a ride, a treat. Bingo<br /><br />Loved the trail story. Wish I thought my guy would be as steady.nagonmomnoreply@blogger.com