tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post3903000502186913762..comments2024-01-03T03:28:48.980-07:00Comments on mugwump Chronicles: Thoughts and Stuff - BittingMugwumphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01487540636265322556noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-32059972731418565452012-12-07T20:19:35.320-07:002012-12-07T20:19:35.320-07:00THANK you for this post!THANK you for this post!Ronhttp://wiki.bhmschools.org/groups/podcasts/weblog/96d55/The_best_way_to_Be_Fertile_and_become_Pregnant_Really_fast.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-29454643234053525842012-02-02T09:17:01.495-07:002012-02-02T09:17:01.495-07:00I don't see the problem with a kimblewicke, I&...I don't see the problem with a kimblewicke, I'm actually planning on getting a low port or mullen one for my boy when I start riding again as he seems to prefer a solid mouth. I think if you use the rings instead of the slots it basically works as a stable mullen-mouth snaffle, or am I wrong?Moseynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-5201858443403025202012-02-01T16:13:49.693-07:002012-02-01T16:13:49.693-07:00mugwump said...
" I too can talk about th...mugwump said...<br /><br /> " I too can talk about this stuff for hours....maybe that's why nobody will sit next to me at Holiday parties....."<br /><br />You obviously just don't go to the right parties! 'Cause I'd sit next to you for hours and chat!<br /><br />I'm so glad you are getting the chance to blog more. I have really been enjoying all of it, the stories and the "brain exercises".<br /><br />Thanks Mugs!Half Dozen Farmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00253311679688366394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-65180827536173435542012-02-01T08:02:51.690-07:002012-02-01T08:02:51.690-07:00Kinda late to the party here, but where I board --...Kinda late to the party here, but where I board -- a barn with a mix of jumpers, pleasure horses, trail and dressage (I do the latter two), the mouthpiece of choice is the Herm Sprenger KK snaffle. HS bits are wicked expensive but nearly all the horses in the barn go in them and are happy in them. After a lot of futzing around with other bits, I finally bit the bullet (so to speak) and tried an eggbutt KK on my mare, and she LOVES it.<br /><br />For anyone doing dressage -- be sure to review the rules on "legal" snaffles (and other bits) if you are going to show. (And the rules for eventing dressage are a little different.) They're pretty strict about bits being mild. I personally won't put a bit that isn't legal for dressage in my mare's mouth.quietannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05710112022047395861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-65617116438017968132012-01-30T13:27:33.685-07:002012-01-30T13:27:33.685-07:00I too can talk about this stuff for hours....maybe...I too can talk about this stuff for hours....maybe that's why nobody will sit next to me at Holiday parties.....mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-57101635685753932512012-01-30T09:56:18.471-07:002012-01-30T09:56:18.471-07:00Thanks mugs for your very thorough answer to my qu...Thanks mugs for your very thorough answer to my question!flyin'horsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10712046674798145103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-71607471029760329412012-01-30T09:40:37.097-07:002012-01-30T09:40:37.097-07:00Ooh another thing - I could talk for hours about t...Ooh another thing - I could talk for hours about this, somebody stop me - when I rode my half Arab with a big solid curb with S shanks, he was happy. He neckreined and stopped nicely. Yeah I Had to defend that choice a couple times at the saddle club, that it was a gentle bit, because it was not meant to haul on hard so I didn't. The bit stayed where it was and didn't swivel everywhere... I wonder now if he was such a hyper minded horse that he couldn't deal with a really active bit. <br /><br />But that horse had his mouth open and lips flapping constantly which looked bad. He did that all the time though. In a halter even. He just had a lot to say.Heidi the Hickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00639479864903922047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-84909746251021996942012-01-30T09:32:13.252-07:002012-01-30T09:32:13.252-07:00This is great! I'll take any info about bits ...This is great! I'll take any info about bits I can get. And I'll take a rainy day to teach an unmounted lesson about bits and bridles and why we use each and for what purpose. I have to touch on that during a mounted lesson but I like to get more into it at some point. I have seen a difference in a student's riding. <br /><br />And I've had the "snaffle" argument with soooo many people! I'm not generally an argumentative person but I'll stand there quietly repeating "if it's got shanks it's a curb I don't care if the mouthpiece is jointed if the reins connect to the bit rings it's a snaffle even if the mouthpiece is solid..."<br /><br />I think about harshness a lot too. I know any bit can be painful and I think if a rider is going to inflict damage it could even be done with a hackamore. I'm constantly worried about being light handed but still getting my cues clear with the reins. I honestly don't know if I'm getting it right. <br /><br />I used to use a bit called a Tom Thumb, also called a colt bit. I used to think it was mild. One day when my daughter was riding I noticed that the rise between the bit ring and cheek piece, and the shank, were almost the same length. It really swiveled in the horse's mouth. I tried to picture what was going on inside her mouth - where was the V in the jointed mouthpiece sticking in? I ended up putting that mare Ina mechanical hackamore which she goes well in. She doesn't need much pressure so we don't heavy hand her, ever. This, by the way, is the horse I started in what I thought was the mildest bit available: eggbutt snaffle with a really fat thick mouthpiece. Then I wondered for like a year why she rode with her mouth open and fussed with the bit! She didn't "get used to it". So I got the same bit with a thinner mouthpiece. Ha. Turns out the poor little thing just literally couldn't get her mouth around it. <br /><br />Anybody else find that, or is it just me and my tiny girl?<br /><br />Anyways, bitting is a fascinating art and science which I will be studying for the rest of my life! I have so much to learn! Exciting stuff!Heidi the Hickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00639479864903922047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-56480720058673431402012-01-30T09:12:52.209-07:002012-01-30T09:12:52.209-07:00I've always thought of the spade bit as the we...I've always thought of the spade bit as the western equivalent of a double bridle - easy to screw up with, requires lots of training to properly use, but, when used correctly, gives extremely precise communication with the horse.Jennifer RPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13804020453735917745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-48809720366372719282012-01-30T07:45:57.966-07:002012-01-30T07:45:57.966-07:00The shape of the mouthpiece (swept back slightly o...The shape of the mouthpiece (swept back slightly on the sides) of the Mylar bits encourages them to flex at the poll and lower their heads. It can be a good bit for a thinking horse that needs a little more stability or for a rider who's hands may not be dead steady. Some english horses get too deep in the bridle in the Mylars. Also some horses with bar damage are not comfortable in them either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-80180000716689995192012-01-30T06:43:29.515-07:002012-01-30T06:43:29.515-07:00Thanks for the Myler bit comments.
I am a *ehem* 4...Thanks for the Myler bit comments.<br />I am a *ehem* 40 something getting back into riding. As a kid/teen I was heavily involved in horse related activities, but honestly I just got on and went. My first horse was from a local rodeo (bucking stock). All my tack was hand-me down items which I felt blessed to get and things like saddle fit or tack in general was something I never pondered or had to choose. I am trying to absorb all I can via books, videos and local trainers. I know just enough to know I don’t know a damn thing!<br />I now have a horse with some decent training and I am just getting a glimpse of how to control his feet with something other than the reins. I quickly learned he doesn’t tolerate having his face hung on and the reins have the least amount influence on his direction. I purchased that bit for two reasons it didn’t fully collapse (so I thought it was less harsh) and each side rotated independently (which I thought would give him more feel through the reins). I’m really trying to do right by this horse (he knows much more than I do) but have days where I feel everything I do is wrong. So is there such a thing as a good bit for beginner hands? <br /><br />ps...I have “felt the light” and it’s what keeps wanting more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-50335769261146126782012-01-29T23:47:05.305-07:002012-01-29T23:47:05.305-07:00I am an ex-trainer who also sat out my time to ge...I am an ex-trainer who also sat out my time to get my ammie card back. It is well worth it - to ride for yourself and your own gratification.<br /><br />I do ride dressage and have steadfastly refused to use a flash - no matter what. When the horse brings his poll up and flexes, his jaw needs to move forward, which it cannot do with his mouth tied shut. My horses jaws are soft and move....I can feel them swallow and lick their lips. <br /><br />I have 2 bits (snaffles) that I start all of my youngsters in. I am comfortable with these two, I get consistent, comparable results - I know what to expect. From those, my preference is a french linked bit (snaffle). The link allows the bit to wrap around the jaw as opposed to the nutcracker action of the single joint. Occasionally I run into a timid mouthed horse that does better in a mullen mouthed snaffle - they get some confidence in a bit that is moving very little. <br /><br />For a western horse, I like a low ported curb with as wide a port as the horse is comfortable with to provide plenty of room for his tongue. Most low ports are too narrow and seem to encourage some horses to run their tongues over the bit. I only use a higher port on more finished horses. Some horses get their frames to low in a higher port which is why I use the low ports a lot.<br /><br />Regarding kimberwicks - they seem to be so popular with pleasure riders today, but I see so few riders with good hands that I see the solid ported kimberwicks as a boon to the horse - much more comfortable and tamer than turning those people loose in a snaffle.<br /><br />Regarding full dressage bridles - your earlier poster had it right about finesse. The two bits give you different levels of communication and contact...pinpoint lightness and responsiveness....but only after the proper training. It's all about the conversation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-66290530911509159072012-01-29T22:36:39.618-07:002012-01-29T22:36:39.618-07:00I have a 'half-breed' bit that belonged to...I have a 'half-breed' bit that belonged to my grandfather - how is it different from a spade bit?Peanuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15241198497115465345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-80539567915852785572012-01-29T18:15:00.935-07:002012-01-29T18:15:00.935-07:00Long time reader / new commenter here, but I think...Long time reader / new commenter here, but I think you guys will chuckle at this story. <br /><br />At the dressage stable where I used to work, I once found myself in the tack room trying to keep a rowdy but curious eight year old boy occupied before his lesson. He spotted double bridle hanging on the wall: 'There are too many bits on that bridle!' he said with a bit of shock in his voice. 'Not really,' I told him, 'that is a double bridle. It is for very advanced horses and riders. The two bits work in a different way, allowing the rider to communicate better with the horse.' He just kept staring at it, with such a look of intense concentration I couldn't bring myself to interrupt his thoughts with further explanation. Finally it was as if a light bulb went off in his head. 'I get it!' he exclaimed. 'You have one bit to steer with and one to stop!!'Jennienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-37742285940376029502012-01-29T14:32:42.403-07:002012-01-29T14:32:42.403-07:00Loved reading this. Just had a conversation with a...Loved reading this. Just had a conversation with a younger rider about one of her horses who she has difficulty stopping on the polo field. She asked about fixing it. I asked if the wanted the short but temporary answer or the longer but better answer. The point of bits is to get to the feet-communication. This rider needs to go back and refine the her conversation with her horse rather than get a bigger bit. <br /><br />Love Sustainable Dressage as well.Mrs. Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07266163739057893568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-27806173126485353922012-01-28T20:45:48.124-07:002012-01-28T20:45:48.124-07:00zebradreams- you brng up a good point. I have seve...zebradreams- you brng up a good point. I have several snaffle bits. When I have a horse in the snaffle, I find the one that suits the mouth of the horse I'm riding, and yes,I own a french link.<br />When I use a curb, I find the best one in my "trainer box"to suit the horse. <br />I have a correction, a broken mouth, solid mouth pieces with different port heights and different shanks.<br />I like Greg Darnell and Les vogt bits.<br />The bit I just had built for my mare is a Benny Guitron, I'm very happy with the balance and feel.<br />I have several hackamores too and will play with wich one works best.<br />But I'm still pretty simple in my approach.I have two snaffles I use on the majority of my colts, one curb (medium port loose shank aluminum Greg Darnesll)and a Les Vogt half-breed for my bridle horses.Most of the time they end upriding in one of those.<br />So yes, I do consider a horse's mouth when I pt a bit on them.<br />BUT if a horse is heavy in my hands I always fault my handling instead of the bit.If 10 horses are heavy in a bit I start looking at the bit as the problem.<br />Call me a purist, or call me too stupid to properly use too many types of bit, I still rely heavily on my abiity to work a horse in a few good bits as they travel up the ladder of training.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-14592363741747096062012-01-28T19:13:51.171-07:002012-01-28T19:13:51.171-07:00Mugs said "I like to think of the rider learn...Mugs said "I like to think of the rider learning to use their hands and develop feel rather than buying equipment that dulls the process."<br /><br />I still try to find a bit that my horse finds more comfortable. If you have soft hands and your horses is still fussy or bracing, evaluate the shape and size of their mouth and try other options to see if they like something more. Example: My horse has always gone in a French Link snaffle, but I recently moved him up into a pelham to have finer communication for some of our dressage work. Even though I can ride with very light contact on the pelham and he doesn't lean on it like he does the snaffle, he's unhappy because the one I found has a thick plastic mouthpiece. So I will be buying him one with a slim copper mouthpiece to keep him soft and happy. (This also emphasizes the point that a thick mouthpiece is not always kinder.)<br /><br />A French Link could be considered duller than a single break snaffle, but if the horse has a low palette they're not likely to ever be happy with contact on a single break.zebradreams07https://www.blogger.com/profile/17044216223536421442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-80809756772721773002012-01-28T12:53:27.437-07:002012-01-28T12:53:27.437-07:00Oregon Sunshine - I really have no way to answer t...Oregon Sunshine - I really have no way to answer that. <br /><br />I'm not sure what your trainer's reasoning was and I don't know anything about you or your horse.<br /><br />If you take anything with you from this post, please have it be that all bits are gentle if that's how they're used and NO bit is gentle if it's misused.<br /><br />This definitely wasn't about which bit is the gentlest, I just wanted you to understand how they work.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-14191346627061802832012-01-28T12:08:17.791-07:002012-01-28T12:08:17.791-07:00This post offered me the answers I've been sea...This post offered me the answers I've been searching for in all those bits and bitting type books I've read over the years. Thanks!<br /><br />A couple years ago, when I had Casey in training, I wanted to get him in a curb bit for showing. We tried a low port that I had and he was unhappy. I don't know the whys exactly. He ended up in an Argentine Snaffle, a broken mouthed, shorter shanked bit. I've never rode him in this bit to date. We seem to do fine in an eggbutt snaffle. <br /><br />Now, if I'm understanding this post correctly, a curb would be gentler than the broken mouthed bit he goes in? Why do you suppose that was the bit of choice and not a grazing bit or anything like that? I'm interested in your theory, as I'm on the other side of the country from the trainer I used before, so asking isn't as easy.<br /><br />-Oregon SunshineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-17234163489474435432012-01-28T05:16:55.041-07:002012-01-28T05:16:55.041-07:00joycemocha - it's an important aspect of the c...joycemocha - it's an important aspect of the curb - it works off the chin strap and shanks. <br /><br />It certainly doesn't mean your horse won't, shouldn't, can't, and any other 'nt you can come up with,<br />carry the bit.<br /><br />Carrying or not carrying doesn't affect the communication. The communication comes through the reins, to the levers (shanks) to the curb strap.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-36486061522001665492012-01-27T22:09:58.315-07:002012-01-27T22:09:58.315-07:00I have always wanted to make a bridle horse. Moch...I have always wanted to make a bridle horse. Mocha would be a good prospect, except that I'm only ready now and she's going to be twelve years old. Sigh. So we work on lightness in our little 5-inch correction bit.<br /><br />I've been to J.M. Capriola's in Elko twice. One time I got to hold some of the spade bits and balance them in my hand. Very cool. That same visit, I also got to listen to an old ranch hand come in to look for a bit to finish off a mare he'd been bringing along. Listening to that discussion was much of a coolness.<br /><br />I do think you can teach a horse to carry a regular curb--at least, that was part of the introductory process that G had me do with Mocha to put her in the curb. The difference between the curb in her mouth and the snaffle in her mouth is striking. She definitely balances the curb. That may also be an artifact of G's style of training, too.<br /><br />Cdncowgirl, I am so with you about those who condemn anyone who doesn't ride in a snaffle. Or folks who think you can't ride a horse with both bits. I alternate bits with Mocha all the time and it's a good thing. She's light in both snaffle and curb. Or in the sidepull, for that matter...joycemochahttp://www.joycereynoldsward.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-73458637468681343522012-01-27T19:51:36.336-07:002012-01-27T19:51:36.336-07:00Anon, My horse really likes the myler bit. I pick...Anon, My horse really likes the myler bit. I picked a bit for my horse a couple of years ago by borrowing a bunch of different bits and testing them out (riding a few times in each). I picked the bit that she fought against the least, but still listened to. She would also accept the myler bit without hesitation when I was putting on her bridle. I didn't know much about why one uses a particular bit when I picked them, I just knew I wanted a "less harsh" bit than the one I was using. After reading this post I now realize that maybe it wasn't necessarily that the bit was harsh, just that my riding style didn't match the bit. Of course, the myler bit was also the most expensive bit I tried. :)paintarabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14676883569515282764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-46436902358176127572012-01-27T18:57:22.655-07:002012-01-27T18:57:22.655-07:00Amen. What mugs said. The old cowboy that I rode ...Amen. What mugs said. The old cowboy that I rode with took years to develop a bridle horse and took hours designing spade bits the would communicate or speak to each horse. He explained to me the process but I was a smart ass teenager and didn't fully listen. My loss. I do remember him talking about the reins sending vibrations and that each horse had a little different response or feel for them. He also told me that a bridle horses mouth should be considered more delicate than fine porcelain or china. Great post. Just awesome.horsegeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08614136458074519322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-482952334536580182012-01-27T17:56:36.529-07:002012-01-27T17:56:36.529-07:00I guess what worries me about a (western) shank bi...I guess what worries me about a (western) shank bit is that I usually do not see them in the hands of the experienced, just the average trail rider or gaming rider.<br /><br />Thanks for defining the snaffle bit. My pet peeve is when riders justify using a kimberwicke or Tom thumb by saying that it is just a snaffle and gentle. I dislike both of those bits quite a lot and think that they can do a fair amount of damage, especially because it is easy for the rider to lean on the kimberwicke and not realize that the horse's mouth is gaping.Valhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07335385366138424092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-47562864523689778642012-01-27T16:45:34.848-07:002012-01-27T16:45:34.848-07:00justplainsam - I'm grateful you tried it....re...justplainsam - I'm grateful you tried it....really glad it helped.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.com