tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post2004584624235318913..comments2024-01-03T03:28:48.980-07:00Comments on mugwump Chronicles: Hobbles and Show Ring LongevityMugwumphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01487540636265322556noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-57542584891598059372008-12-17T15:29:00.000-07:002008-12-17T15:29:00.000-07:00Laura,Oh geeze sorry if I was not clear. That desc...Laura,<BR/><BR/>Oh geeze sorry if I was not clear. That description (one line per horse where the horse has freedom to walk end to end) was clear to me, and I like the idea better than high-lining several horses in static (unmoving) positions along the same line. But I have heard a few people talk about using this other method, and I was wondering if you had any experience or stories that would allow you to speak to having several horses tied along the same line. If not no worries, just curious as I have no personal experience with this.<BR/><BR/>Thanks tho! =)Whywudyabreedithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12069453160852561143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-41656315850502307262008-12-17T15:14:00.000-07:002008-12-17T15:14:00.000-07:00Whywouldya--here's what we did/do. We used stout b...Whywouldya--here's what we did/do. We used stout but light rope--I guess you could call it nylon clothesline--it wasn't very thick in diameter, or very heavy, but it was plenty strong. We needed to bring a fair amount, so it had to pack little and light. We tied this rope between trees, as I've described before. Each horse would have his own "section", so he wouldn't get tangled with another horse. The "run line" was tied roughly five feet from the ground. The horses were tied as I described before, such that their leadropes would slide up and down their section of run line and they could graze. Yes, they would occasionally get a leg over the lead rope, though we tried to tie them just long enough to eat, and not long enough to get tangled. (By the way, we brought long leadropes when we packed into the mountains.) A horse needs to be able to deal with some degree of being tangled up in the rope without panicking in order to use this method. We checked them regularly and untangled them if they got tangled up. When all the grass on a "run" was eaten, we restrung the line somewhere else. On our trips we were many miles into the mountains; we did not pack feed (too heavy). We always camped in meadows where there was plenty for the horses to eat. And we routinely turned half our horses loose to eat while the other half were on the run lines. Does this answer your question?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-81773910786562507962008-12-17T13:23:00.000-07:002008-12-17T13:23:00.000-07:00Hey Laura,When addressing the whole horse packing ...Hey Laura,<BR/><BR/>When addressing the whole horse packing thing, would you speak to high lining?<BR/><BR/>My understanding of this is that horses are tied along the same line, in static positions along that line. <BR/><BR/>I think that this is more for horse camping (as in car camping with your horse) as opposed to packing. So in this case each horse could have their own pile of hay. <BR/><BR/>I know several people who swear by this, but I have no personal experience with it. I would think you would need some really strong nylon webbing for the high line in lieu of the light clothes line that you used for setting up a "run." <BR/><BR/>Anyway I would appreciate it if you would share your ideas/experiences with high-lining as a restraint.<BR/><BR/>Thanks!Whywudyabreedithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12069453160852561143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-86555180138397691612008-12-17T10:49:00.000-07:002008-12-17T10:49:00.000-07:00On the trip my friend & I took, the packing co...On the trip my friend & I took, the packing company used a string of mules for the packing. They were amazing. I've never seen such orderly critters. And heaven help the trail horse who tried to pass them. YOU STAY IN LINE! It was awesome. We brought our own horses and it only took a couple of "hee-haws" before they were over the mules. There were corrals by where we stayed, so the equines were put in there, so no zip lines. I'd like to see that though.<BR/><BR/>My trainer did take my horse to a 3-day 'event' and he was long-tied to my trainer's trailer. My trainer was very nervous though, because he was afraid something would happen to my horse, so he basically slept with one eye open, in the trailer tack room, and a knife in his hand in case he had to cut the lead rope. <BR/><BR/>My horse figured out the rope really quickly and slept in his usual curled-up-like-a-dog style. No tangles. So all was well. I'm sure he could do a zip-line no problem. (However he would be the type of horse to take off, so he would not be able to free-graze I'm thinking)Joyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00977898784588176802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-36016399454348681922008-12-17T10:34:00.000-07:002008-12-17T10:34:00.000-07:00Joy and Fantatyk Voyager, mugwump has suggested th...Joy and Fantatyk Voyager, mugwump has suggested that we do another post on the horse packing, so I'll write more on this subject for her to post soon. But, to clarify, I've written briefly in these comments about staking a horse out by one leg...no I don't recommend this. Everyone I knw who tried it eventually had a wreck, no matter how broke the horse appeared to be to this form of restraint. The run line or zip line between two trees, with the horses free to move along the line is the best form of restraint. And, as I said, we often tied up some of the horses and left some loose to graze (more on this subject later). <BR/>And I do truly believe that these riders who put their camping gear on the back of their saddle horse are asking to cripple the horse (and I've known horses--not owned by me or my friends--who were crippled that way). If you want to go horse camping, you need at least two horses, one to ride and one to pack the gear on. The easiest way to do this, if you don't have much experience, is to buy "saddle paniers" that are meant to hang on any western saddle. You can't put as much in these as you can in a real pack rig, but they're easy to use. You just hang them off a saddle and you're ready to go.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-45527058864233898042008-12-17T09:01:00.000-07:002008-12-17T09:01:00.000-07:00I agree that tying when camping is best when no st...I agree that tying when camping is best when no stalls or paddocks are availible.<BR/>Here in Florida we prefer the high tie between to trees or set post for that purpose.<BR/>Hobbling would be good if there was no one around for miles but the first place my horse would go is to the next camp and bother the other horses or snack on what was availible.Wildcathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09950895129437309897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-86437676147194709752008-12-17T08:47:00.000-07:002008-12-17T08:47:00.000-07:00Laura, and everyone, thanks for all the info. I ha...Laura, and everyone, thanks for all the info. <BR/>I have gone on 5-6 day backpacks on my own, but bringing a horse along makes it all very much more intimidating, I think.<BR/>That is a good point about having so much extra weight on your saddle horse.<BR/><BR/>What about one legged picketing? Would that work as well?Fantastyk Voyagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15065772565014490544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-2229826581979469012008-12-16T19:51:00.000-07:002008-12-16T19:51:00.000-07:00Hey Laura Crum, were you in the northern part of t...Hey Laura Crum, were you in the northern part of the state? I ask because the one pack trip I took was with a pack company out of Bishop, so not up north. Just curious. It was a great experience. My friend & I thought it would've been great to get to do it for a living.Joyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00977898784588176802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-62607990628138327542008-12-16T16:01:00.000-07:002008-12-16T16:01:00.000-07:00The "...Show Ring Longevity" part of the title mak...The "...Show Ring Longevity" part of the title makes me think of the practice of using hock hobbles to "train" a horse to have a slow canter.Cassie-andrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07905685395401995203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-56131410202974354092008-12-16T15:06:00.000-07:002008-12-16T15:06:00.000-07:00Fantatyk Voyager--I always called this set up a ru...Fantatyk Voyager--I always called this set up a run line, but I believe others call it a zip line. What we did (and do) when camping is tie some light rope (clothesline type) snugly between two appropriate tree trunks at about five feet high. By appropriate I mean the trunks are stout and there are few obatacles between them, and hopefully, lots of grass. You then tie your horse's leadline around this rope, using a bowline or other knot that won't slip to make a loop that won't close and will slide up and down the rope. You tie the horse just long enough that he can graze, not so long that he'll get tangled. But yes, they will get their leg over the rope....they have to be at least used to being tangled up a little or it won't work out. You can do this by some of the methods described on this blog. Hobbles, leading them around by the leg...etc. When we used these lines, we would put half the horses on the lines and turn the other half loose, as long as we were in camp and could keep an eye on them. Any horse who had ever run off was not turned loose. Horses are either prone to leaving or they're not, I've found. Some horses can be trusted to stay in camp. But you sometimes find out who can be trusted and who can't the hard way. Anyway, periodically we would move the run lines, when the horses had eaten all the grass they could reach. We would then swap loose horses and tied up horses. At night, all horses were on run lines.<BR/><BR/>Some points. When camping with horses it is best to camp in a meadow, or somewhere where there is feed. If you are not going to be able to do this, you have to pack feed, which is prohibitively heavy. If you mean to take enough gear to camp, you should allow one pack horse for every two or three people (depending on how much gear you take). A saddle horse should not be asked to pack his rider's sleeping bag, food...etc. I saw this all the time in the mountains, and I consider it abusive. At the pack station I worked at, the most you were allowed to put in the saddle bags was lunch and a rain slicker (packers also carried a pistol, for obvious reasons.) It is not considered PC to tie horses to trees and let them paw all night--bad for the trees. The run lines or zip lines are a lot more effective at keeping your horse around than hobbles. <BR/><BR/>Hope this helps. I have done many many horse packing trips in the Sierra Nevada Mts of California, and am happy to answer any questions I can.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-6471576839832902192008-12-16T14:40:00.000-07:002008-12-16T14:40:00.000-07:00Hey there Mugs - just spent a little while catchin...Hey there Mugs - just spent a little while catching up on all the posts I've missed since my college-induced hiatus. It's good to be back :)<BR/><BR/>I've never worked with hobbles, truth be told, but I have always wanted to try it with McKinna. To be honest, the only reason I'm interested is because I feel like it will make her that much safer if she ever gets her legs tangled up in something. She's a smart horse, and I bet it wouldn't take her long to figure out. I just feel like it's one more step to keeping her safe, you know?<BR/><BR/>She's already shown me that she's careful about being caught up. One time a year or so ago we had a miscommunication at a fence, an oxer, and she ended up putting down her front legs between the two elements of the fence. She held still perfectly calmly until I asked her to step back, and then she very carefully lifted her legs out. So, I guess I just feel that the hobble training is some extra insurance.<BR/><BR/>I'll be waiting for the second part of this post!manymisadventureshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00269126419483167938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-26845222504546839612008-12-16T08:28:00.000-07:002008-12-16T08:28:00.000-07:00Jill- That is a very standard method of getting a ...Jill- That is a very standard method of getting a horse to flex and submit. Cowboys just call it "tying their head around." Sometimes you tie their head to the tail, others will tie them to a ring on the saddle. <BR/>For the most part you will get better results if you teach them yourself with a pressure/release scenario.<BR/>I have had horses come in who were locked in resistance to the point where I tied them around. It worked, but I still have a tough time reccomending it as a training method. Lots can go wrong.<BR/>I noticed over the years that the harshest methods I ever used always were on horses that came in poorly started and angry. These were the horses my other, gentler methods didn't always work on. It made me try harder not to fall back on the quick fixes, although I knew a bunch and was willing to use them if all else failed.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-84958507380957873802008-12-16T08:00:00.000-07:002008-12-16T08:00:00.000-07:00In a book I have by Pat Smythe, who was a very suc...In a book I have by Pat Smythe, who was a very successful British showjumper in the 1950s, she describes how she 'cured' one of her top show jumper (an ex-racehorse) of an unwillingness to bend by tying one end of a rope to his noseband of his headcollar and the other end to the tail so he had. He was called Prince Hal and did go on to be successful. I did always wonder at the instant fix aspect of it though. Presumably she tried other methods too, I can't remember the entire tale.Jillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00386998873768199907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-68337517339976566552008-12-16T06:42:00.000-07:002008-12-16T06:42:00.000-07:00Whywudyabreedit: When the colt got his legs caught...Whywudyabreedit: When the colt got his legs caught in the wire he hadn't been trailered yet and so we hadn't hobbled him yet. We only worked with him with the ropes. The hobbles came about two or three years after the fence incident.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14523660446608394720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-29219411527595741192008-12-15T22:37:00.000-07:002008-12-15T22:37:00.000-07:00I have been wanting to go camping with my horses a...I have been wanting to go camping with my horses and I thought hobbling woud be a great way to confine them. Hmmm, now I'm not so sure. <BR/><BR/>How do you set up a zip line?Fantastyk Voyagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15065772565014490544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-26749224169938666032008-12-15T20:45:00.000-07:002008-12-15T20:45:00.000-07:00Yes, this has been very cool. Thank you very much...Yes, this has been very cool. Thank you very much =)Whywudyabreedithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12069453160852561143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-88141978194050110122008-12-15T20:14:00.000-07:002008-12-15T20:14:00.000-07:00This is cool. The comments are as informative as ...This is cool. The comments are as informative as the post. I like all the examples of how people use hobbles/hobble type situations. Very interesting.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again for another great post Mugs.Joyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00977898784588176802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-66333626218987335372008-12-15T15:26:00.000-07:002008-12-15T15:26:00.000-07:00Deered said:she said ok, losened the reins and Rat...Deered said:<BR/>she said ok, losened the reins and Rata just sighed and relaxed. my sister went out of the box and walked on aloose rein until she was called back - as soon as the reins went tight and she was asked to collect - she was the fire breathing red head again. <BR/><BR/>********************<BR/><BR/>I teach all of my animals a relaxation cue. It helps to teach them when to be alert and when to relax so that you aren't using up precious energy before you need it. Often the dogs will curl up and go to sleep when waiting. Shepherds use it frequently when at trials, you will see the dogs that aren't currently entered on a relaxed down, watching the dog on the field. I taught it because I cannot STAND to have yelping-screaming-hysterical dogs. <BR/><BR/>Acutally, lots of stallion owners do exactly the same thing. Their cue is usually either a special halter used only for breeding and/or a particular direction when leaving their stall. When the daily halter is used, the studs know it's time to be a horse and when the breeding halter is used they know what that is for too. Helps to make them good citizens as well as safer to handle.Hollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17685436243608973979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-76474168843551461652008-12-15T14:52:00.000-07:002008-12-15T14:52:00.000-07:00"I'm becoming a firm believer that the more consis..."I'm becoming a firm believer that the more consistant the handling and the more sensible the relationship between horse and rider the more willing the horse will be to look to the trainer for assistance."<BR/><BR/>I like this Mugwump... I hope it is true! I have a big red chicken at home. He is getting better. 10x better than when I first brought him home.<BR/><BR/>I keep hoping with consistancy he will begin looking to me. Dunno if he will always be a big red chicken or if one day he'll figure out that his new "job" is A-OK and he'll mellow out. <BR/><BR/>He's a good boy and pleasant to have around. MY confidence wavers sometimes when I begin imagining what "could" happen. grin. I'm probably not supposed to do that huh? :)Shansterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04397551985965117012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-58327647530580245252008-12-15T12:16:00.000-07:002008-12-15T12:16:00.000-07:00I have anoter "old cowboys and hobbling" story. M...I have anoter "old cowboys and hobbling" story. <BR/><BR/>My first "quality" horse was a fire breathing, throw herself down if she didnot want to do what you told her, spoiled monster. One of her favorite tricks was to bolt toward the barn if given the least bit of leeway. The cowboy that was working with us taught her to ground tie (and ground tie she did for years until we sold her) by tieing her front foot to her bridle by the reins, with her head inches from that foot. As long as she stood there with her head down by her foot, all was good. But if she tried to move, or put her head up, she jerked on the bridle. By this time, I don't remember what kind of bit, or hackamore, we were using at the time. Yes, she threw herself down more times than I could count, but she became a deadlevel ground broke horse.<BR/><BR/>No, I wouldn't do that today, just another "old days" story.Smurfettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02025057533314547558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-86074569321411906102008-12-15T10:47:00.000-07:002008-12-15T10:47:00.000-07:00I bought an older mare bred mare several years ago...I bought an older mare bred mare several years ago. She was pretty pregnant when I bought her and I didn't saddle her or ride her. They said she was broke to ride but a little cinchy. Well... WOW A LITTLE CINCHY WAS AN UNDERSTATEMENT... She would go over backwards when you tried to saddle her. I tried going slow and gentle, I tried being firm and almost mean, I tried everything my little pea brain could think of. When I told the trainer at the barn where I was boarding about this mare he said to bring her in and he would "fix it". Well.... He was absolutely floored by her behavior. He called an old cowboy friend he knew and had him come see this crazy horse. The old cowboy comes and takes my mare into the arena and works her for 30 minutes and has her saddled successfully 10 times with no problem. He did some ground work and then put a soft cotton rope around her front leg and took her leg away from her. She went nuts. But he calmly went on doing it over and over until she became submissive. When she would start to throw a fit about the saddle, he would go back and take her leg. I have never had a problem with her since. It was one of the most interesting things I have ever watched. He never sad a word to her the whole time, he never hurt her, didn't leave a mark on her, never got angry with her, just quiet persistance. She turned out to be a nice mare to ride, she was trained well at one time, I suspect that the saddling had become such and issue that they just started using her as a broodmare.horsegeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08614136458074519322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-91975530371978098892008-12-15T10:25:00.000-07:002008-12-15T10:25:00.000-07:00You know, you've got a point. Maybe I'll hobble br...You know, you've got a point. Maybe I'll hobble break Smoky (our four year old colt)just on general principles. Though, since they are team roping horses, all my horses learn to get tangled up in ropes and are pretty good about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-25779912338638523872008-12-15T10:15:00.000-07:002008-12-15T10:15:00.000-07:00I'm becoming a firm believer that the more consist...I'm becoming a firm believer that the more consistant the handling and the more sensible the relationship between horse and rider the more willing the horse will be to look to the trainer for assistance.<BR/>I'm still getting out those hobbles. I can't wait to see the furious look on my yellow mare's legs.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-37335665910160292352008-12-15T09:59:00.000-07:002008-12-15T09:59:00.000-07:00You know, mugwump, I often think how horses respon...You know, mugwump, I often think how horses respond when they get hung up has more to do with who they are than what kind of training's been done with them. I never hobble broke Gunner, and he was a spooky, flighty horse, yet, as a young horse, he twice managed to get hung up on a fence, in both cases wedging the fence wire between the shoe of his front foot and his hoof. (And no, it wasn't barbed wire, in one case, hogwire, in the other a metal cable.) If he had fought he (and the fence) would probably have been a mess. But this spooky horse held perectly still and waited for me to get him out, and in the first case, with the hog wire, I was all alone, and actually had to leave him attached to the fence by his foot (after talking to him and settling him as well as I could) while I ran to the barn for the wire snippers. He waited patiently for five minutes for me to get back and cut him free. I believe this was because despite his spookiness, and the lack of hobble experience, he was just a trusting horse. But breaking a horse to hobbles does make sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-88180780792353095232008-12-15T08:43:00.000-07:002008-12-15T08:43:00.000-07:00This topic is fascinating for me. The intersting t...This topic is fascinating for me. The intersting thing for me is I never broke my horses to hobbles to teach them to deal with being caught up in wire or fencing etc.I did it because that was "the way we did things". So every horse I have trained has been taught to accept the restraint of hobbles and ropes. And every horse I trained to hobbles was calm if they were caught in wire. Including Sonita.I just never put it together. Except for the five I own now.<BR/>I stopped training them to hobbles while working for the Big K.It didn't apply to what we were doing. Working with multiple horses for the same discipline meant becoming stream-lined and economical in what we trained our horses to do.<BR/>I have written more than once on my problems with horses being trained and not broke. <BR/>This has come leaping at me again because of this discussion. Believe me, once the weather goes above -3 I'm getting out my old hobbles.<BR/>So thanks guys. I love getting wake up calls and these discussions.<BR/>The driving hobble fascinates me. What a spectacular idea. I have seen runaway teams before and it's terrifying.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.com