tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post8573779790572139113..comments2024-01-03T03:28:48.980-07:00Comments on mugwump Chronicles: Seat bones and TraileringMugwumphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01487540636265322556noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-23180794318049799832009-01-31T23:54:00.000-07:002009-01-31T23:54:00.000-07:00Hey mugwump, I just wanted to let you know that my...Hey mugwump, I just wanted to let you know that my formerly good loader got balky with me yesterday. I came home and reread this post, went out this morning, and had her loaded in under two minutes. No stress, no fight. Thank you very much!Funderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06358687366401205336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-28655556576589930942008-11-01T11:58:00.000-06:002008-11-01T11:58:00.000-06:00anniebannannie-those are the people who end up get...anniebannannie-those are the people who end up getting hurt. When I still had clients, if I ran into one of those I had a standard reply. "You brought me your horse because of what I know. I'm doing what I feel is best. You have to either let me operate the way I'm best or take your horse home. Now. This minute." Then I would walk away. It was a safety issue as far as I was concerned.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-46953645593741932392008-10-31T13:40:00.000-06:002008-10-31T13:40:00.000-06:00I load a similar way. Although I use the tap, tap,...I load a similar way. Although I use the tap, tap, tap, tap... on the butt method. All the while I'm saying, "Get up." If they make a move towards the trailer, the tapping stops.<BR/><BR/>I was loading a clients horse once and she refused to allow me to tap her horse with the crop, because I was putatively terrorizing her horse. The mare never did get in the trailer.<BR/><BR/>Later, I loaded the mare when the owner wasn't around. The next day, the mare loaded up quietly. The owner asked me if I'd worked with the mare. When I replied in the affirmative, she said she was impressed but would never use the technique because it was abusive.anniebananniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00176242022055891984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-15553336346720414692008-10-31T13:38:00.000-06:002008-10-31T13:38:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.anniebananniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00176242022055891984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-39202926789565929542008-10-30T16:59:00.000-06:002008-10-30T16:59:00.000-06:00Sydney - the bucket, that's what it's called! LOL!...Sydney - the bucket, that's what it's called! LOL!<BR/><BR/>And it was a stock trailer. This is how crazy that damn mare was, she didn't want to get in a big old 7 foot tall stock trailer.fuglyhorseofthedayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14748297520774828265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-36667839260774781012008-10-30T12:47:00.000-06:002008-10-30T12:47:00.000-06:00Thanks to both Laura and Jamie who took up my comm...Thanks to both Laura and Jamie who took up my comment. I did not answer earlier because I was waiting to hear from Mugs. Since she has moved on I will address these two posts and be done. <BR/><BR/>Jamie said: "evade" simply means to avoid. <BR/><BR/>You are correct that is what the word means, I hope that is .all. it means to you and to most people. It has not been my personal experience that others do not attach other labels to the behavior, in addition to the meaning of the word. <BR/><BR/>Laura wrote: Holly, reading your comments, I have to say that if you've been around horses long enough you can read them quite easily on issues like this. Yes, I can tell if something else caught the horse's attention or if he stepped on a stone as opposed to when he is looking away cause he's evading going in the trailer. To say that one can't possibly know what the horse is thinking in this situation is not true, at least in my book.<BR/><BR/>I've had horses for over 30 years. It's just been in the last ten or so that I have quit assuming that I know what they are thinking. I deal with behavior alone now. Often when you have a horse you are familiar with, you can anticipate what behavior will happen next based on previous experience where that horse has used those precursors, but to assume the same behaviors mean the same thing across the species may very well be incorrect. The same behavior with another horse might not mean that same thing at all. So I no longer assume I know what they are thinking.Hollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17685436243608973979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-44842342472609006602008-10-30T08:17:00.000-06:002008-10-30T08:17:00.000-06:00emilym- I would seriously reccomend sending your h...emilym- I would seriously reccomend sending your horse out for at least the first thirty days. I can't give you the help you need on the internet. Giving you advice when you don't have an arena is just plain dangerous. Sending your young one out will get your horse started and keep you safe, which is the goal, don't you think?<BR/>anon-I love that you picked that up. I miss things in my explanations sometimes. Yes, I ride with light contact (legs) all the time. I searched high and low for a saddle that would allow me to do that. (Jerry Shaw cutter)<BR/>I do mean light by the way. In my mind I'm balancing my horse between me and 1/4 inch of air.<BR/>The down side of how I ride is I will lose contact with my seat bones through lead changes if I don't remember Seat bones first, then leg,then hands.Good call.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-57198224974144839252008-10-30T06:15:00.000-06:002008-10-30T06:15:00.000-06:00I have been mulling over your latest entry and I t...I have been mulling over your latest entry and I think I would like some clarification. My question is more about legs than seat.<BR/><BR/>I ride using outside leg pressure to PUSH a horse into a turn. I ride with little to no contact, so the horse is moving away from pressure for cues from the leg or rein on the neck. From how I understand your post, you are asking a horse to move into ABSENCE of PRESSURE with your leg cues. Does this mean you ride with constant contact with the legs?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-10815116835222484022008-10-29T23:17:00.000-06:002008-10-29T23:17:00.000-06:00At least you take the time to teach your horses to...At least you take the time to teach your horses to load properly. Alot of these big saddle seat barns don't even bother, they just drug the horses, they do the same for the ferrier. One of R's clients bought one of these horses, spent a -huge- pile. He was from a very big, very sucssesful farm, been showing all his life and was a superstar in the ring. You would think that after 13 years of being toted to show after show this horse would load a trailer...not so much. Naturally the clients thought they had to watch. These were the type that were flabbergasted by any "violent" action when it came to their horse. It took an eternity of begging to get that horse loaded. The next time that horse needed to be trailered we loaded very eairly in the morning. It took alot of time to get him in, it wasn't pretty but he's loaded like a dream since.<BR/><BR/>As far as seat bones go I don't have much to add. I can put my seat bones into my buggy seat but it isn't going to make the horse go left and right. As far as riding I'll have to try a couple of these things next ride. I've known my horse was seat sensetive but I'm still expirementing in useing my seat. In terms of "whole rider-ness" I'm good with the hands but the seat thing is coming really slow. That's what I get for learning to drive before I could ride. XPJ. Hatchetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05413206937627361674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-85811958789451139852008-10-29T18:09:00.000-06:002008-10-29T18:09:00.000-06:00lmfao! Thats hilarious. When in doubt scare the he...lmfao! Thats hilarious. When in doubt scare the hell out of the horse with the metal demon tractor lol!<BR/>You mean the bucket of the tractor? Or big ass shit scooper?<BR/><BR/>I don't know why more people don't use stock trailers. Hell we make partitions if we have to haul more than two horses (we have one metal partition.)we use this board and chains attached to them. Easy to remove and we have yet to have a problem with it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14523660446608394720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-17809864257194392442008-10-29T17:55:00.000-06:002008-10-29T17:55:00.000-06:00Your trailer loading method sounds very effective....Your trailer loading method sounds very effective. I like that you noted it's not good to load and unload them a bunch of times - that's a bit of NHmanship that makes me CRAZY. I also like that you noted there's no need to change the program if the horse is throwing a hissy fit. I think horses are much like toddlers and giving in to a hissy fit is never the answer.<BR/><BR/>I've always used the good-old-fashioned butt rope method. Butt rope goes above the hocks, around the butt, under the tail. Ideally you have one person on each side of it and one in the trailer holding the lead (but I've always had stock trailers - I like your method WAY better for a 2 horse, loading freaky horses in a 2 horse is always scary because you have no room to get out of their way if you're in there). Person in the trailer doesn't ever pull hard on the rope - they may tug a bit but for the most part, the pressure comes from behind. I like to have my helpers "saw" the rope back and forth to create very annoying friction. I do not think I have met a horse yet that does not move away from that friction and toward the trailer. The only release from the annoyance of the butt rope is found inside the trailer. <BR/><BR/>>>Personally I love stock trailers. The horses have more room to move around, more air and they aren't going into a black hole (they usually have slats) the downside is every time someone moves they know you have the stock trailer and want to use you in moving @_@<<<BR/><BR/>I agree completely. I am a fan of avoiding a lot of trailer loading drama in the first place. I despise 2 horse straight loads and would never own one.<BR/><BR/>Laura, that story is too funny! OK, here is my BEST trailer loading story:<BR/><BR/>Friend of mine was trying to return Crazy Mare who hadn't worked out AT ALL to dealer. Crazy Mare, seeing a good deal when she found it, refused to load and leave friend's farm.<BR/><BR/>I finally came up with the idea of backing the stock trailer up to the barn aisle and trying to drive her down it into the trailer. Nope, crazy mare wasn't going in. She was all too happy to run over the top of us, though!<BR/><BR/>So finally I told my friend's husband to go get the tractor. He raised the (whatever you call that thing on the front that picks up dirt and stuff, I'm blanking out) and he drove slowly down the barn aisle toward Crazy Mare. Crazy Mare could not quite believe her eyes, but she realized quickly this was a battle she was not going to win, and she got in the trailer. Again, I wouldn't recommend it but it worked and nobody got hurt, not even Crazy Mare!fuglyhorseofthedayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14748297520774828265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-27809092803607925662008-10-29T15:36:00.000-06:002008-10-29T15:36:00.000-06:00Holly, reading your comments, I have to say that i...Holly, reading your comments, I have to say that if you've been around horses long enough you can read them quite easily on issues like this. Yes, I can tell if something else caught the horse's attention or if he stepped on a stone as opposed to when he is looking away cause he's evading going in the trailer. To say that one can't possibly know what the horse is thinking in this situation is not true, at least in my book. It does take a good many years spent working with horses to be able to do it accurately and also to be clear about those moments when you can't tell what a given horse is thinking, if you see what I mean.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-26150634176250456542008-10-29T15:35:00.000-06:002008-10-29T15:35:00.000-06:00Unfortunately there aren't any trainers in the are...Unfortunately there aren't any trainers in the area. That would be Pine Bluff, AR if any of you trainers out there are looking for an untapped market!!! <BR/><BR/>I could board him for a month or two at a place with a round pen and arena, but there is no training help there. The trainer I am thinking of sending him to is about 3 hours north so there won't be as many lessons as I would like. Just a western pleasure riding guy even though my horse will eventually be an eventer, I'd like him to be safe in open spaces so I thought, why not start with that trainer. He's also my farrier so I know that he'll treat him fair (he's pretty darn patient). As I've been reading your posts, I want to find a trainer like you, but it's so hard to tell what a trainer will actually do when you're not around. Since there aren't any trainers close by, it makes it a tough decision to send them out for training.Emily M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07445664152299987013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-78091264451028496952008-10-29T14:05:00.000-06:002008-10-29T14:05:00.000-06:00char-the people I worked for until I quit did the ...char-the people I worked for until I quit did the same thing...back, back,back, step...it worked really well.<BR/>emily m.-you're right, that is huge. So much of it is feel. Can you take your horse to a trainer that will let you work with your horse? Teach you the steps? I have a colt that is going to be needed to be started next fall. I'm going to board him at a barn for 30 days that has the stuff that makes me feel safe. Mainly a small indoor. My daughter and I will start him there. I do a better job if I feel secure.<BR/>heila- I don't feed on short trips. And I do tie in the trailer. My horses spend a lot of their life tied. Which leads me to anon"s crabby mare. I would work on my crabby horse outside of the trailer. I would break her to hobbles. I would tie her next to horses that won't hurt her but will nuzzle her. She would be hobbled. I would do the drills that I talked about in some other post(gotta get that archive!)to teach her to be still when other horses approach while I ride. I would require her to behave with other horses. THEN I would load her last in the trailer. I would make sure the other horses are tied so they can't worry or touch her.I would wait until they were settled. I would whack her if she squealed. Just once, but I'd do it.<BR/>Essentially I would teach her what I expect outside the trailer and then I would load her keeping her anxieties in mind, but still expecting her to behave. See what I mean?mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-39328613336830981712008-10-29T13:35:00.000-06:002008-10-29T13:35:00.000-06:00OH PS a new horse for squeals and strikes is one t...OH PS a new horse for squeals and strikes is one that has been in a different pasture for two or more days.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-9468253556125009132008-10-29T13:31:00.000-06:002008-10-29T13:31:00.000-06:00Mugs my mare squeals and strikes with a new horse ...Mugs my mare squeals and strikes with a new horse in a pasture, if I am not paying attention and let her sniff noses with a new horse on a ride. Basicaly she will squeal and strike at an new horse in any setting. I can avoid the problem in most settings but I want to address the problem. KWIM?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-90264165925827808722008-10-29T13:24:00.000-06:002008-10-29T13:24:00.000-06:00A while ago you asked for training questions. I h...A while ago you asked for training questions. I have a new question for you to ponder that just may be too big to answer. I was wondering if you could outline the types of things that you think a horse should know and how it should be acting before you do the first ride? I am actually probably going to end up sending my horse to a trainer for this, but I keep working towards the first ride just in case I don't chicken out. Then when you do the first ride, what's the game plan you go in with? I don't have a round pen or an enclosed arena so keeping that in mind with a possible answer would probably help me a lot since a lot.Emily M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07445664152299987013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-83831601159392137022008-10-29T13:23:00.001-06:002008-10-29T13:23:00.001-06:00If my horse won't load we lightly pull a lunge rop...If my horse won't load we lightly pull a lunge rope round his bum and he walks in. He is much happier trucking on his own than with another horse for some reason.<BR/><BR/>Do you put a haynet in the trailer for short journeys?<BR/><BR/>Do you tie them up in the trailer?Heilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10115300526657295504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-41457294535255017992008-10-29T13:23:00.000-06:002008-10-29T13:23:00.000-06:00Love the explaination of using your seat bones too...Love the explaination of using your seat bones too!! Very well said! I've heard other explainations that make my head spin...Jamiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02753872713429510955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-57780794786551382892008-10-29T13:19:00.000-06:002008-10-29T13:19:00.000-06:00RE: The Horse That Won't Unload - My horse has al...RE: The Horse That Won't Unload - <BR/><BR/>My horse has always been very skeptical about coming off of a step down. When I first got him, he would back in the front, and walk in place in the back until the front legs were almost BETWEEN his back legs, and then teeter and practically fall out of the trailer. <BR/><BR/>Not good.<BR/><BR/>Instead of just saying, "Back, back, back..." I started giving him a warning when he was at the end, "Back, back, back, STEP, step..." and so on.<BR/><BR/>He's not nearly as nervous about coming off the trailer anymore now that he knows I'm - "Watching His Back". LOL!Charhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901638136431043360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-41500381944006359762008-10-29T13:12:00.000-06:002008-10-29T13:12:00.000-06:00LOL that is funny Laura.I love trailer loading sto...LOL that is funny Laura.<BR/><BR/>I love trailer loading stories. I have a million of them. Each problem horse is different and they make for very good conversation.<BR/><BR/>Once this lady that boarded her horse at my place had a problem with two horse trailers. I remember we finally got her into a trailer and when we got to the riding meeting we were going to she WOULD NOT get out. We had everyone trying everything. She would put one foot out, feel, touch the ground with her toe and step back in. Funny enough the one that got her out was a 10 year old kid. Amazing what that kid did with a package of firecrackers that all the manpower there couldn't.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14523660446608394720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-65848965351418250692008-10-29T12:46:00.000-06:002008-10-29T12:46:00.000-06:00Like I said Laura, I wait. I love what you did tho...Like I said Laura, I wait. I love what you did though, it just cracked me up.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-35855759016791372162008-10-29T12:39:00.000-06:002008-10-29T12:39:00.000-06:00For those who want to know how I got the colt out ...For those who want to know how I got the colt out of the two horse trailer after 24 hours, well, just remember, I was all of eighteen. The breeder I worked for was a tough old cowboy, and he said he didn't care how long the horse stood in there--he'd come out when he wanted food and water. After twenty-four hours I was worried the horse would colic before he got out. He was a very weird colt, prone to violent behavior, and there was no way it was a good idea to get in front of him in the tiny "stall" of the two horse trailer (which did not have an escape door). Backing him from the other stall hadn't worked. I had no one to help me. I finally drove the trailer into the arena, where the ground was soft, tied a big heavy cotton rope in a loop aroud the base of the colt's neck and tied the other end around a telephone pole. I opened the back door of the trailer. And then I very slowly droves the trailer out from under the horse. It worked. The colt was fine. He eventually learned to haul (he was always a completely worthless jerk of a horse, but that was his breeding, not my trailer unloading method). I don't recommend this approach--maybe mugwump can come up with something better.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-75349226419671621872008-10-29T12:32:00.000-06:002008-10-29T12:32:00.000-06:00laura- I am like you. I wait. I'll wait as long as...laura- I am like you. I wait. I'll wait as long as they want.<BR/>This relates to the horse that would jump back in -ezra- I think. I got into a terrific battle with one of those once. I later found out he had a serious bone spur in his spine, it hurt him to step down. I felt like a schmuck. Now I just wait.<BR/>jamie-thanks. I have nothing more to add.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-13603662905566660212008-10-29T11:43:00.000-06:002008-10-29T11:43:00.000-06:00Holly ~"evade" simply means to avoid. I know that...Holly ~<BR/>"evade" simply means to avoid. I know that I can evade doing the dishes, but I don't have any emotional reasaons for doing so. I might just be interested in doing something else at the time. I think what Mugs is saying is that if your horse is evading your request to make an effort to get in the trailer... you need to consistently remind him of your request. Make the doing right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult by applying pressure if he stops trying. My 3 year old will often get distracted and turn to look at something else, which also means he's quit trying to do what I'm asking at that moment. No biggie, he just needs a reminder. As soon as he makes an effort towards our goal (facing the trailer, taking a step towards or in it, pawing, sniffing, snorting, whatever) then all pressure goes away. He learns the most comfortable place for him is the trailer.<BR/>I will definitely agree about not drilling this from first-hand experience. My first loading session with my boy went great, using the pressure-release method. BUT I had him repeat in and out about 5 or 6 times before he got pissed and refused to go in altogether. Then we had a tug-o-war about that until I got him back in, calm, and back out. The next day he refused to let me catch him... and that's never happened before. He let me know just what he thought of my trailer training! LOL So PLEASE don't drill your horses! They're smarter than that!! :)Jamiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02753872713429510955noreply@blogger.com