tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post70955238418764590..comments2024-01-03T03:28:48.980-07:00Comments on mugwump Chronicles: Cross Training vs. GeneticsMugwumphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01487540636265322556noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-19276114706788084952009-03-13T22:37:00.000-06:002009-03-13T22:37:00.000-06:00>>There are still people out there that are ...>>There are still people out there that are successfully crossing the right type of TB's onto QH's and getting outcrosses that have always represented what a desirable QH should be-athletic and versatile. Which is where almost all of our AQHA Supreme Champions have come from.<<<BR/><BR/>Absolutely correct, and you're right. You can't just cross any shitty TB on your QH and think you're improving the breed or going to get a hunt seat horse. I have seen some nasty, hideous OTTB mares at QH breeding farms - no hip, bad shoulder, etc. <BR/><BR/>I guess what I always come back to is that my favorite QH's, the ones I have always enjoyed riding the most, were partially or all racebred with quite a bit of TB in them. Depth Charge, Haul Charge, Rocket Bar, Truly Truckle, etc. Those horses to me have the athleticism and "heart" of a TB but they have the common sense of the QH. I had a mare that would run barrels and walk out of the arena on a loose rein at a flat-footed walk. To me that is the ultimate horse - that's my dream horse. So it depends on what you like, too. I like light-sided and handy but really, really sensible. I know a lot of people in QH's who want them downright lazy and super beginner-friendly, so that's a whole different type. Then there are the cowhorses, which to me are a fun to ride but a little too snorty/sensitive/alert for my tastes. I usually feel like everybody in QH's wants something totally different and so it's no surprise we have so many different types of QH's out there.fuglyhorseofthedayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14748297520774828265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-91872590219155279302009-03-13T22:29:00.000-06:002009-03-13T22:29:00.000-06:00>>But Mugs is right if you have to add TB to...>>But Mugs is right if you have to add TB to get those results, then it isn't a quarter horse anymore.<<<BR/><BR/>But we ALWAYS DID.<BR/><BR/>What was Three Bars?<BR/><BR/>I mean, you have to go back pretty far to find a Quarter Horse that doesn't have TB in it. <BR/><BR/>I do think it's silly to see a 15/16ths Thoroughbred showing at the AQHA shows - I could see drawing the line at no more than 50% TB (looking at a reasonable amount of generations, like 4 or 5) for registration. But I'll always believe that the good Thoroughbreds massively improved the breed and made the breed more versatile, not to mention fixing the teeny little nasty 00 feet that were all too prevalent for a while there.fuglyhorseofthedayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14748297520774828265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-11201297868957440562009-03-13T11:03:00.000-06:002009-03-13T11:03:00.000-06:00Mugs said...drifter- you're close to what I'm sayi...Mugs said...<BR/>drifter- you're close to what I'm saying. I don't think it's a detriment to the breed though. It's just what the breed is.<BR/>If it takes a TB cross to make a horse succeed in a certain event, then why don't we just use TB's?<BR/>That's all I'm getting at.<BR/>And the fact that I see no need to knock people who like foundation QH's, Morgan's Appies, whatever. <BR/>Why is this a problem?<BR/>**********************************<BR/>The people who constantly purport that ANY TB blood crossed onto a QH is going to improve the breed is so sadly lacking in knowledge and understanding of how the breed developed, that I wished these people wouldn't even bother owning a QH. <BR/><BR/>It doesn't take much research to see that the outcross of TB and QH has always been important in the breed to maintain certain qualities. But it does take a little insight to understand that it is not just any old TB blood that does the trick. The most successful nicks in history came from TB's that either 1)LOOKED more like a racing type QH than a TB, or 2)Lacked the ability to consistantly pass on the long-distance speed that successful TB's need. <BR/><BR/>There are still people out there that are successfully crossing the right type of TB's onto QH's and getting outcrosses that have always represented what a desirable QH should be-athletic and versatile. Which is where almost all of our AQHA Supreme Champions have come from.<BR/><BR/>And then we have the other type of people who are simply adding TB blood to attain a not very athletic, super tall, very lean type of horse that is only designed to perform in a very narrow field.<BR/><BR/>Which one of these types of breeders do you think is destroying the integrity of the QH? <BR/><BR/>And one tiny point-if crossing a foundation bred QH with a TB creates a fantastic outcross. Doesn't someone need to actually perpetuate the individual lines? In which case you would need three breeders-the one who breeds good TB's, the one who breeds good foundation lines and the one who is willing to cross them.BrownEyed Cowgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03610547057139295854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-26697451038194689072009-03-13T10:03:00.000-06:002009-03-13T10:03:00.000-06:00Mugs-I've been thinking about this since you poste...Mugs-I've been thinking about this since you posted it. <BR/><BR/>I'm a big proponent of an "all-around" horse. I want all of my horses to have experience in a variety of events, whether they are suited for it or not. To me it is just part of the process of creating a well-broke individual. I sort of consider that cross-training. But as a horse develops it usually becomes apparent which disciplines/events they naturally seem to have a knack for and are good at. Lots of them can go any which way a person desires, but at a certain point you have to pick and stick to similar-type events for them to really excel. That does not mean that they cannot go on later and excel at other events.<BR/><BR/>Here is the thing that I have noticed about REALLY GOOD, all-around horses. They are trained and "finished" in one event or a couple of very similar events at a time. Once they have achieved a consistency in that area, then training is moved on to another area. <BR/>I've found that trying to train for too many different types of events at one time is too confusing for a horse and often makes it difficult to get consistency. That doesn't mean that I give up doing different things with my horse in an attempt to make him a well-broke individual. We ride pastures, work cows and dink around at open horse shows.<BR/>I guess-long story short, I believe that lots of different things must be done with a horse to make him a well-broke individual, but when it comes time to compete a person has to focus on finishing them in one area before starting to cross train into another area.<BR/><BR/>Now when it comes to the genetic aspect of it, I think people limit their horses way too much. Most of the really good bloodlines come from all-around type horses, but they excelled in a certain area and now that is all people expect of them. Incidentally, the specialization really started coming about when the AQHA went from supporting the Supreme Champion program and only naming Hi-Point winners at the end of the year to creating the World Show and naming World Champions. This was done in an effort to stop the loss of competitors from the non-money earning AQHA shows. The NCHA, NRHA and NSBA were all pulling competitors away from the AQHA shows by offering $$ and year-end incentives.BrownEyed Cowgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03610547057139295854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-37494652471135733692009-03-13T00:42:00.000-06:002009-03-13T00:42:00.000-06:00Endurance saddles - Keeping your price reasonable,...Endurance saddles - Keeping your price reasonable, saddle comfortable for you and the horse, great customer service before and after, I would go with a Tucker.<BR/><BR/>They run between 1500 and 2000, have a flexible tree, gel cushion on the bars, wool pad, UBER comfortable seat for your but, many rigging options, and many saddle options. Also before you buy, take pictures of your horse and measurements according to their instructions. Send them in and they will tell you what tree they think is best for your horse. If their trees won't work, they will work with you to make one that will. I know of one lady in So Cal and a Tucker rep brought her saddle out and made sure it fit (not the tack store, but from Tucker). She is in the mounted patrol but that is as fancy as she gets, so I don't know if it was special treatment or not.<BR/> Add to that, they repair their saddles if it is ever needed. <BR/><BR/>If you want to spend more money look at a Bob Marshall Sports Saddle. However, if you aren't sure if you really want to stay with it. Grab the Tucker, your resale will be decent and they are quality, with out being god awful expensive.ZTIGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15669677641684692788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-8576788040152867482009-03-13T00:33:00.000-06:002009-03-13T00:33:00.000-06:00"But how do you satisfy those of us who are very e..."But how do you satisfy those of us who are very experienced riders who are looking for that "explosive" horse that can do it all, yet still maintain a breed of horse that the majority of the quarter horse-riding public will be happy and safe using?"<BR/><BR/>You buy my mare lol. Foundation type QH, a little bit of a bull dog style, she can take down a cow, run a barrel pattern at mind blowing speed (IMO :)), slam the brakes on a dime and roll back to the other side. Then you put a kid on her and she is an entirely different mare. Her head drops low, she has her slow trot (she won't canter with a kid at all). Her eyes are on me for her cues, until the kid develops a solid seat. She slows into her stops, and takes it easy, with the little ones. <BR/><BR/>We were playing capture the flag one night, and we were both hyped up from it. One of the parents wanted a picture of their baby on a horse, a little 8 month old. They handed me the baby and immediately you could feel the complete change in attitude. It was like the pilot light being turned down (the best way I can describe it). Her head went down and she was a completely calm angel. Even with the hollering and excitement in the arena. Baby went back to the parents and once they were a safe distance away the pilot light went to full blast, she couldn't wait to get back in the game. <BR/><BR/>She is a pleasure to ride with enough spice to make it fun when you want it. But when you ask for it to be off, it usually is. I got lucky and couldn't ask for a better horse.<BR/> <BR/>Would we ever be highly competitive in today's show world? No, it has become to specialized, AQHA breeders are developing different 'breeds' of QH's that have different conformational standards and expectations. But on the local level we can hold our own and she does everything I ask.<BR/><BR/>At 19 we started training for LD's. That girl can keep up with the 16 hand TB we were training with. Will we be in the top 10? I would be shocked. We have a hell of a lot of fun out there, and I am more concerned with getting A's (I am trying for that 4.0 :) ) and B's on the conditioning card anyway. We do make great time, just won't be in the top 10. She is turning 22 this month but acts like she's 4. And well worth every penny spent.ZTIGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15669677641684692788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-7784601449427139372009-03-12T20:49:00.000-06:002009-03-12T20:49:00.000-06:00A random question now -- and its nominally related...A random question now -- and its nominally related to the post.<BR/><BR/>My husband is considering putting sliding plates on the not-so-wild-auction-horse, at the suggestion of his trainer/instructor. I'm a bit leery. The trainer (and much internets) says it will help "preserve" the little mare's deep stops. I'm worried that it's too much like closing the door -- she's still only 3, and we wanted her out in the pasture this summer with the others, and going on trails and casual team penning, just some world experience stuff. <BR/><BR/>She's not built to be a reining winner. But she seems to enjoy the work, and in particular seems to like doing it for my husband who is learning the discipline. So yes, if she showed at all in the local circuit, it would be in reining. <BR/><BR/>Trainer says we should get something called baby sliders, or 3/4 plates, or something like that. Said its what the reined cow horse people use, because it lets the horse slide a bit but still grip the dirt to turn and work. So I thought of mugwump and... well? Will putting sliding plates of this type onto my little mare make it harder to do other things with her, ie, cross training? I'm not concerned about jumping, but just the rest of the things people do with horses.<BR/><BR/>I've very little experience with not just sliding plates, but any shoeing... other than trying complicated therapeutics with one of the horses, all 5 (6?) of my equine charges are barefoot.Wayfarerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00666719531216701030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-22281150170460359522009-03-12T20:39:00.000-06:002009-03-12T20:39:00.000-06:00mariah480-I am sticking my neck out here--and ther...mariah480-I am sticking my neck out here--and there is no percentage in it. Somebody (or everybody) will hate me. But the truth is that the answer lies in individuals. As it does now, and will always do. Think about it. All winners are that special individual who transcends the type. No, my idea of the QH breed type isn't boring. Those horses would be a lot more fun for most people (and stay sounder--which is more fun, de facto). There would still be outstanding individuals who would win in competition.. The diference? The run of the mill would be way more fun to own. Think about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-57356289070192203512009-03-12T19:38:00.000-06:002009-03-12T19:38:00.000-06:00Laura said..."but I, like Mugwump, would prefer to...Laura said...<BR/><BR/>"but I, like Mugwump, would prefer to see a resurgence of foundation bred horses that fit the essential picture of a QH. Which is, in my opinion, a medium sized (14.3-15.3--and yes, of course there will always be exceptions) horse that is sturdy and a bit "soggy", has enough cow to work cattle, good enough gaits and a quiet enough disposition to be a pleasure to ride along the trail and fast enough to win a short race against great big TBs"<BR/><BR/>And yet my first reaction to this (I posted previously as anonymous) was "how boring". But as a lover of hot, but talented horses, I wonder if that wasn't because the description sounded dull with "a bit", "has enough cow", "good enough gaits". I am not overjoyed by the specialization in our (AQHA, NRHA) industry, either. <BR/><BR/>But how do you satisfy those of us who are very experienced riders who are looking for that "explosive" horse that can do it all, yet still maintain a breed of horse that the majority of the quarter horse-riding public will be happy and safe using?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-71989869561284218352009-03-12T18:37:00.000-06:002009-03-12T18:37:00.000-06:00Mugs, I think we are in agreement. I don't necess...Mugs, I think we are in agreement. I don't necessarily think the TB blood is bad for the QH (I wouldn't mind see Arab blood allowed in for a bit - that's an entirely different topic though), but I do think the TB is bad in the way we see. TB to enhance the breed fine, but TB blood to turn our QHs into TB is silly. Like you said, if that's what you want, then just go get a TB.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-48848765300056951362009-03-12T18:28:00.000-06:002009-03-12T18:28:00.000-06:00Laura, no problem about the "irrational" comment. ...Laura, no problem about the "irrational" comment. One reason why I rarely post to blogs is I do not always explain myself well and I do not want a flame war. But I do not want anyone thinking this horse lived an abused, horrid life. <BR/><BR/>Have no doubt, the horse was difficult, which is why he was gelded. I would not have gelded him today, but I am in a different position than I was almost 20 years ago.<BR/><BR/>I do love reining and will never stop doing it. However, I train my own horse and have not left a trail of burned-out, lame horses behind me. By training my own horses, I have the time to bring horses along more slowly than most trainers could and do it successfully.<BR/><BR/>The one thing both these two horses have in common is they are naturally low-headed, very elegant movers. But they would not fit into your ideal of a quarter horse. Not soggy enough. To each his own?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-17440772181194156032009-03-12T18:12:00.000-06:002009-03-12T18:12:00.000-06:00Anon--that is why I apologized in advance for my c...Anon--that is why I apologized in advance for my comment. I don't know your horses....however the way you put the first comment it sounded as if you were defending taking an "irrational" horse who hated showing and forcing him the whole way. I have seen plenty of that, including studs where one did need a "weapon" to enter the stall, and I think it sucks. So, that is why I said what I did. I am no big fan of reining, since I worked for several reined cowhorse trainers in my youth, so perhaps I am predjudiced. It sounds as if you gave your "hot" gelding a good life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-51179227834489487312009-03-12T18:06:00.000-06:002009-03-12T18:06:00.000-06:00Its true that we all like something different. No ...Its true that we all like something different. No problem there. I do see a slight problem with breeding trends in the different areas of the QH business becoming so "specialized" that the horses bear no resemblance to each other. We have the great big pleasure types like Fugly's VLC who look nothing like the tiny catty cutter types. No one on earth would guess these horses were the same breed if they didn't know it in advance. Maybe that's not the end of the world, but I, like Mugwump, would prefer to see a resurgence of foundation bred horses that fit the essential picture of a QH. Which is, in my opinion, a medium sized (14.3-15.3--and yes, of course there will always be exceptions) horse that is sturdy and a bit "soggy", has enough cow to work cattle, good enough gaits and a quiet enough disposition to be a pleasure to ride along the trail and fast enough to win a short race against great big TBs. If the AQHA is consistently placing a completely different type of horse (which they are), then they bear the responsibilty for basically destroying the point of their own breed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-19176552783115442362009-03-12T17:58:00.000-06:002009-03-12T17:58:00.000-06:00I am the previous "Anonymous" who posted about hav...I am the previous "Anonymous" who posted about having the "irrational" horse. Perhaps I should have explained myself better and said he was a "hot horse". It was not the training or even showing that made him difficult to handle. It really was the stalling at horseshows. He did not tolerate stalling well (claustrophobic?), so we did not stall at home. The horse was stalled for shows and I would never have cut short his show career because of that. No apologies, I work for a living and so do my horses. And he was no neurotic terror, but you had to be situationally aware when he was in the stall. <BR/><BR/>He was *never* abused, though he was pushed to succeed, but he did have years to learn every event. This was no futurity colt pushed beyond his limits at a young age and he never burned out in the show ring. In fact, he was relaxed and happy in the pen, but I tired him out with lots of loping at every show. I did not take shortcuts with this horses training. He was not dull-eyed and dead-minded.<BR/><BR/>I believe he did not burn out, because of all the different events and the cross-training. <BR/><BR/>I also should have been more specific that I did not enter the stall with a "weapon". I entered the stall with a halter in my hand to catch him up. After that, there were no problems. He did not pace, weave, crib, etc. and he had excellent ground manners. You just had to actively manage the stalling situation at horseshows. Additionally, the rule of thumb I grew up on was you never hit or got into a fight with a Doc o Lena, therefore, I was careful to never escalate fights. If we had a bad day training, I tended to just get off him and put him away for the day and come back to it another time.<BR/><BR/>As for my new "irrational" horse, she is again another "hot" and very sensitive horse who has been abused by a previous trainer. Hence, I picked her up cheap because I know how to handle hot horses. I took her on because I can see the potential in this horse. And I started her again by removing the spurs and constant pressure. We even switched to a hackamore when bit issues arose. She is now trusting, accepting of the bit (though we still intend to use the hackamore for her to train and show in until next year) and going to be a fabulous Derby horse. But she is hot and sensitive and pushed too far will clearly fight back. <BR/><BR/>I guess the point I was trying to make is that the really good horses that can cross over from reining (my event) into the other events are "hot", "sensitive" and can have their difficult moments. I would never describe my previous horse or this new mare as "bad minded", but they were not and were never going to be rides for just anyone. I like my horses hot, they are more fun but must be actively managed. <BR/><BR/>BTW, I still have that previous "irrational" gelding, he is fat, sassy, 19 years old and living on pasture in NM with his horse buddy. I wish I had that life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-50423299889693347542009-03-12T17:43:00.000-06:002009-03-12T17:43:00.000-06:00drifter- you're close to what I'm saying. I don't ...drifter- you're close to what I'm saying. I don't think it's a detriment to the breed though. It's just what the breed is.<BR/>If it takes a TB cross to make a horse succeed in a certain event, then why don't we just use TB's?<BR/>That's all I'm getting at.<BR/>And the fact that I see no need to knock people who like foundation QH's, Morgan's Appies, whatever. <BR/>Why is this a problem?mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-53404940429627430412009-03-12T16:42:00.000-06:002009-03-12T16:42:00.000-06:00HorseofCourse: "A discussion is going on in German...HorseofCourse: "A discussion is going on in Germany about crossing some jumping blood back into the dressage blood lines." <BR/><BR/><BR/>I worked for a breeder in Ont. Canada, who's father was a well known dressage rider in germany. Anyways its funny that you're saying there putting jumping blood into dressage horses. This breeder was using his fathers primarily dressage stock to produce great jumpers (atleast they were in Canada anyways!) Everything in that barn over the age of 7 could have competed PSG at any time, but could then go and jump a 5 foot course without any effort. He really changed my mind about what a 'trained' horse should be expected to do.Justaplainsamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399124494395034612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-30231395920413622472009-03-12T16:35:00.000-06:002009-03-12T16:35:00.000-06:00So, I ride drill. My drill horse is a big semi-ga...So, I ride drill. My drill horse is a big semi-gaited mutt, but he excels at drill - he's very flexible and he's very smart. He learns a drill quickly and has bailed my butt out more than once because I couldn't remember what was coming next. This horse loves drill - he comes alive when the music starts. But, towards the end of the season, he tends to get burned out. To keep his brain from turning to mush, I take him trail riding and team penning. <BR/><BR/>Is he really suited for penning? Oh, heck no! He's a big horse and he's got such big leg action that the calves see him coming and head for the hills. But he loves chasing the cows and gives it his all. I wouldn't spend a bunch of money to put him in a big penning event, but I definitely think that taking him out now and again to a penning practice is good for his brain. <BR/><BR/>Same with trail riding - since he's gaited, he's a blast to trail ride, and he's got a good brain for it - he rarely spooks. And the trail riding gives him a chance to relax and just hang out - no pressure, no loud music, just hanging out and being a horse. <BR/><BR/>So, to agree with a lot of what others have said, if you're looking for something to keep your horse from burning out on their primary sport, I think cross training helps a LOT. <BR/><BR/>If, on the other hand, you're looking to win big shows in, say, pleasure and cutting, I think you're going to be dissappointed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-49174207015846713852009-03-12T15:38:00.000-06:002009-03-12T15:38:00.000-06:00Sonnys Hot Jazz has a lot foundation breeding on t...Sonnys Hot Jazz has a lot foundation breeding on top going back numerous times to King, Plaudit, Leo and Silvertone, there's even some Bert.<BR/><BR/>But Mugs is right if you have to add TB to get those results, then it isn't a quarter horse anymore.<BR/><BR/>I think the point is we don't see QH types to winning in several disciplines, it's a different look that wins. The old style QH who can and does do everything just can't develop all the correct muscles to be at the top of the winnings in everything. And isn't that the detriment of the breed?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-84586526620560316682009-03-12T14:30:00.000-06:002009-03-12T14:30:00.000-06:00Just in case you wondered Mugs I am going to be wr...Just in case you wondered Mugs I am going to be writing a second part to that post about muscle types. There is an answer to what you are looking for.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14523660446608394720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-34115235606335942432009-03-12T14:05:00.000-06:002009-03-12T14:05:00.000-06:00>>And yes, QH's used to be able to show ...>>And yes, QH's used to be able to show in halter, pleasure, cutting, whatever. That's why there are still so many Foundation breeders.<BR/>But while a Foundation horse may be a pretty good competitor in everything, it's the horse bred for specific tasks that win. Which they should, because they're better at whatever it is the judges are looking for<<<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure what your point is. Unless you didn't read the last half of my comment.<BR/>Part of the argument is if you need to breed TB into the horse in order to win a class then why is it considered a QH event?<BR/>The other part is, where did those cool all arounders go and how do we get them back?<BR/>I see the point behind both of the arguments.<BR/>The foundation breeders are trying to keep a horse that is based on the QH who can do it all. In the manner of a QH, not a TB. <BR/>And no foundation blood in current winning horses? Maybe in your world, not in mine.Black Pearl, the 2008 NRCHA snaffle bit winner is three generations off Peppy San Badger....oops! Foundation.<BR/>I own both types of QH. Two are as fancy and current as I could possibly get. They have some TB in there, but it's so far back it would probably be considered part of their "foundation breeding". Three are strictly old school breeding. Gay Bar King, Doc Bar and (gasp) Poco Bueno. I like my horses for who they are and how they compete. <BR/>There are many responsible breeders raising high quality Foundation QH's. There are many irresponsible idiots breeding poorly conformed nothing grandchildren of a flash in the pan trendy horse. <BR/>It goes both ways.mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-5001341165434261152009-03-12T13:38:00.000-06:002009-03-12T13:38:00.000-06:00sorry offtopic: Just wanted to clarify WHY I aske...sorry offtopic: Just wanted to clarify WHY I asked the question:<BR/><BR/>My trainer had me put Jazz in draw reins last time I rode for two reasons. #1, to help ME with my hands (to slow them down)and #2. She was breaking at the poll and locking her bottom jaw. <BR/><BR/>I was amazed at the difference. In both MY hands and her response. Probably the first time she ever truly got to being "soft". My plan is to do like you say and have them on for a few more rides as "back up" to my other reins.crochetyoleladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10558947029662564330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-16529252275982554382009-03-12T13:37:00.000-06:002009-03-12T13:37:00.000-06:00>>And yes, QH's used to be able to show ...>>And yes, QH's used to be able to show in halter, pleasure, cutting, whatever. That's why there are still so many Foundation breeders.<<<BR/><BR/>If you look at horses who have done well in vastly different events in AQHA, I do not see a pattern of foundation breeding. I see plenty of "modern bred" horses who have shown amazing versatility in a wide variety of events.<BR/><BR/>I.E. <A HREF="http://www.sonnyshotjazz.com/" REL="nofollow">Sonny's Hot Jazz</A>. I've seen him show and he is an amazing animal. Looks great hunt or western, drives and jumps. And he's, gasp, half TB. I could name many more.fuglyhorseofthedayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14748297520774828265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-78812505221396877072009-03-12T13:26:00.000-06:002009-03-12T13:26:00.000-06:00>>I think it depends on the level at which y...>>I think it depends on the level at which you are expecting your horse to perform.<<<BR/><BR/>I agree with SquirrelGurl. You can cross-train like crazy, but you can't make a horse do every event on earth exceptionally well (there are those rare individuals, but they don't come along often)<BR/><BR/>For example, the VLC is a born pleasure horse. He likes to hang his head level, he likes to go slow. Would I run barrels on him at some schooling show for fun? Sure. But I would do it FOR FUN. I wouldn't be up there beating his ass and trying to get into the placings. We'd just lope the pattern and maybe we'd get something approximating a hand gallop on the way home...if he felt particularly motivated...or someone was shaking a can of oats at the finish line. :-)<BR/><BR/>I absolutely think "fun rides" are important to keep a horse fresh. That can be trail riding or it can be in the arena, but the main point is that you are NOT SCHOOLING...maybe you're chasing a cow or you're playing a game on horseback or you're bareback in a halter and two lead ropes, but you're not asking for headset/advanced stuff/hard work. You're just riding and having fun. The horse can put his head wherever he wants.<BR/><BR/>>>“I heard Bobby Ingersoll say once that you have to do what your horse is good at”. <<<BR/><BR/>Absolutely. So much misery is caused by trying to stuff a square peg into a round hole. I read these stories of people trying to trail ride with a super-sensitive, herd bound, spooky nut and I just think...for god's sake, sell it to an arena person and buy yourself a horse who loves the trails. There are plenty of them out there! Why do you want every ride to be a battle? What are you trying to prove, and who are you trying to prove it to?fuglyhorseofthedayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14748297520774828265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-56297048550846197992009-03-12T12:44:00.000-06:002009-03-12T12:44:00.000-06:00WARNING: long, rambling post!I think whatever disc...WARNING: long, rambling post!<BR/><BR/>I think whatever discipline you do, you should also be training your horse to be comfortable going down a trail. If that horse gets sold (for whatever reason) to the wrong person, and that person decides to go for a ride, and your horse has a nasty bolt on it, someone will get hurt and your horse likely shot.<BR/><BR/>However, I also think that you shouldn't expect a horse to cross train to a high level. Putting up a 1foot cross pole and trotting your pleasure horse over it for variety won't kill it, and doing some slow barrel racing with your jumper might even be a positive for practising those tight turns.<BR/><BR/>Your horse will, in my opinion, become stale if asked to do the same thing over and over. It's why so many low end lesson horses don't move beyong a jog, and why you see top dressage horses spazzing out at a bouquet of flowers.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I am working towards eventing my horse. I also trail, hunt, show and gymkhana with him. I'm starting side saddle lessons, and may try a little polo soon. I do demos of bombproofing with him, and I have small children lifted up to sit with me on him.<BR/><BR/>Yes, my horse is a versatile type. But he is the only horse on my yard that sticks his head into the bridle and calls as soon as he sees me with my riding boots on.<BR/><BR/>If your horse is physically uncomfortable doing something, don't do it. If he's a cutting horse that happens to enjoy a little dressage, then go for it!xmuskateerxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06467462135089899606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4380534023229200743.post-68141734402932428562009-03-12T12:29:00.000-06:002009-03-12T12:29:00.000-06:00duch=suchduch=suchHorseOfCoursehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15907659164579327290noreply@blogger.com