I am a horse trainer and a story teller
The world needs more Good Lookin Horses and offspring! - The Equestrian Vagabond
Oh thank God, I have been SEARCHING and SEARCHING for a good Clydesdale Appaloosa cross.
I wouldn't want to cut him either. He looks much too nice to mutilate.I bet he'll make a great gelding for someone, though.
::twitch:: And here I was feeling pained because so many poultry owners couldn't spell "yolk" correctly (yoke is that big wooden thing oxen have over their shoulders, NOT the nutritious part of the egg) but not being able to spell your breed of horse...An EASY to spell one? Ow.
I’m going to stir the pot a little. I am just getting a bit jaded hearing how bad it is to breed a dog or horse. I am not trying to have a go at any particular commenter and if this seems too inflammatory please just delete this for me Mugs, as that is not my intention.It is as if there is some sort of moral “rightness” or “wrongness” depending on wether the animal is fashionable in the show ring at the moment. Apparently that horse is “wrong”. Why? It looks like it is sound. Lets assume it is. Just lets assume that despite the fact the guy who owns it cant spell, his paddock is good enough so it does not get out and annoy the neighbours mares and it looks well enough fed. Assume someone else likes it enough to pay him the money he wants – What’s the problem?Not so many decades ago that was the sort of horse most ordinary people needed. I have a friend in his 70’s. His father made a living out of a horse just like that one, a clydie cross. His horses transported the family and goods around in a cart, could plough and be ridden to go to work. He also hired himself and his horse to dig the big drains around the city of Newcastle NSW. His clydie cross could out dig and out pull the bigger purebred draughts. A light draft like that was very useful animal in the days when people needed horses for transport and work, much more useful then than a 17hh fancy warmblood or downhill over-muscled QH with delicate feet.There is nothing unfunctional about that type of horse apart from it wont sell as well on today’s market in the USA as something currently fashionable. It is likely to be sounder and more useful than half of the supposedly well bred horses around today.We were discussing problems with pure bred dogs here. Same goes for horses bred for the show ring. So is this really a moral problem? or is this guy just clueless about spelling, and clueless about horse marketing and current horse prices in the market in the USA (because he is spot on the money for the value of that horse in the Australian market today).Go to www.horsedeals.com.au and type “clydie” in the search field for horses in the $1000 price range. If you can spell “Clydesdale” the XB horses are worth more money Also clydie/app crosses are not cheap either.http://www.horsedeals.com.au/index.php?p=view-horse&horse=303601-Beginners-Schoolmasterhttp://www.horsedeals.com.au/index.php?p=view-horse&horse=302599-Hayes-Park-Stormhttp://www.horsedeals.com.au/index.php?p=view-horse&horse=300962-Appaloosa-x-Clydesdale-Mare
There is nothing wrong with that horse other than his owner. Reading between the lines - selling him because I don't want to feed him (and I'm a lazy butt who doesn't want to work with him - what are the odds that this horse isn't broke either.) and I didn't cut him because he's a good looking horse (well, fine, he'll make a good looking gelding - I'm just a lazy butt who can't be bothered to spend the money to give this horse a greater chance of having a useful, productive life with a kid or as working horse on a ranch, etc. Instead I am going to HOPE that someone else wants a stallion that's probably not broke and that may be bound for a slaughter truck as his size and weight make him a prime candidate for a ticket to Mexico.
Ozhorse, even before I read your comment I was going in your direction. I think I can judge a horse well enough from a bad photo to see if it's worth going to look at. This horse looks well cared for. We don't need any more show ring freaks.
I was heading that way too. When I was growing up in the UK some 50 years ago - that horse would have been useful as a heavy hunter. Still think he should be gelded asap.
I agree that a crossbred horse is fine and useful, but don't think they should be kept for breeding, they are an end product. Actually this one looks a lot like my old TWH mare from 40 years ago. She had a lot of Clydesdale characteristics. She was the best trail horse I ever had.
What is wrong with breeding crossbreds? How about if it was a bit of German Warmblood, some Saddlebred and ½ standardbred? Breedable?Or perhaps 1/8 arab, 6/8 thoroughbred, and the rest unknown, and a really small horse as well.Just about every breed on the market started out a crossbreed, most fairly recently.
Ozhorse, I think it is right that unless you are breding to keep for yourself you breed something that is fashionable. I can make the soundest, most athletic horse with the best temperament, but if no one wants to buy it and I cant keep it then all I have bred is meat.Nothing wrong with a nice draft cross - they are getting quite popular again as weight carriers, but I know best part of 100 draft/ draft cross geldings that I would rather breed on the basis of conformation/ looks alonethan that one. If you are selecting a breeding stalion, ok shouldnt cut it. In addition to being exceptionally put together (which that photo doesnt demonstrate) at a bare minimum you would also need to know something about temprament and athleticism. The reason that advert is shocking isnt the suggestion that draft crosses should breed, but the implication from the advert that this mediocrely put together horse that has done nothing (which I would tend to asume means they tried and failed to back it) is the right horse for the job.
Ozhorse - I would be hard pressed to delete anything you post. You are a thinker. You want other people to think. You never attack anyone personally, just open doors that really need to be looked through...which is exactly my evil intent.
In my last comment I was referring to the bloodlines, as near as I can quickly work them out, of two very well known stallions. The first one is the Tennessee Walking Horse stallion Midnight Sun, and the second is Justin Morgan’s Figure. Thoroughbreds are a cross breed, Quarter horses are a cross breed that is now diversifying into about 5 different breeds. What people need from their horses changes over time and so do the horses, quite quickly, often over just a few decades.
Anon, I actually agree with you re the horse itself. Its just that there seems to be such automatic criticism without much idea of why such breeding is “bad”.I used to follow Fuglyhorseoftheday blog and was quite entertained, but there was such a lot of shrill criticism that I don’t think people really were thinking through, just joining in with the rest of the crowd. Through Mugs blog I started following the Terriermans Daily Dose. He has an ongoing theme about what the show scene has done to dog breeds. The topic is pretty well covered there about the negative consequences of going from breeding for a use, to breeding within a studbook for the show ring. Breeding for the fashion in the show ring invariably leads to problems with the health and useability of the animals, whether they be sheep, cattle, dogs, horses or whatever. It is a shame that the fashion ends up going against good breeding in the health and utility sense while making it “sensible breeding” to risk a less useful animal for the sake of more certain money on the outcome.
Thanks for the thumbs up Mugs.
I guess my question is- is there a market for it NOW? I know everyone thinks there is a huge market for trail riding horses, which this stallion would provide, but in my area, not so much. My comment was 100% sarcastic. I don't think this horse should be breeding anything. Not because cross bred horses have no value, but because I don't believe there will be market enough to keep this horse breeding. Maybe one or two babies would find homes, if they have nice minds, but enough to make a business out of it? Probably not. Now, I don't have a problem with someone having a stud, breeding it a few times, keeping or selling babies, just doing it because they like it, but there are just so many ads for horses being sold for a couple hundred bucks, unbroken, poor conformation, studs being given away or advertised for a couple hundred bucks, that kind of thing. I just don't think it's necessary. What is the future of that? Where is that going?
I would love to have him...for about $300 ... as a driving GELDING.
As for the price I'm willing to pay (previous comment) ... since no training is mentioned, I'm assuming the horse has been either a pet, or just had food thrown to him, and is not "broke" to do anything else. The market for an untrained, unregistered, cross-bred stallion is nil. If he were in harness or under saddle, green he would be worth more. Show-ready, he'd be worth much more. But to have a 7 year old stallion, with a crappy phone photo, and not bother to say anything else ... you aren't going to get many buyers at $1000, and you're not doing anything to justify your price. I can buy a trail-broke, registered horse for $1000. If I want to start something from scratch, I can buy a nicely bred weanling or yearling in any color I want for $1000-$1200.So my mind kind of automatically goes to, I can't take you seriously, guy, because I'm going to spend $150 to geld him, followed by $1000 of my time (in training) to be able to attach any realistic value to him, to the other 98% of the horse-savvy population.
The Amish would love him. They could improve his looks if his head wasn't stuck in a bucket, and you could see his legs and feet.
hey guys! I totally own a draft cross i adore, and love her ability to do a smidgen of everything, but STILL wouldnt want an unbroke stallion of ANY breeding at my barn. So theoretically I'm kinda the maret he's aiming at and I still don't want him. LOL. Except I do think he has the build to be a cute trail horse if he was trained and a gelding. A cute anything horse, really. But I do get annoyed with keeping horses stallions just because you're a dude and cant bear to cut his balls off. Ugghhh.anywhoos, total topic switch, but Mugs, could you maybe do a talk on barns? We just bought an acreage and i'm trying to find plans for a small two-horse barn (that isn't just a run-in shed)and I was wondering if anyone had input for use-ablity. Like is an upper hayloft awesome or lame? Or is a joint tack/grain room okay? Do people like natural light from windows in the loft or walls, or just really on lights? I live in BC, so it is fairly damp and cold all winter without much snow, and dry and warm in the summer. Kinda think Becky's climate, but not as warm. LOL.
I would like to point out...it is easy to read between the lines in this ad. Maybe because it's America, land of the 5 acre ranchettes. If a horse is on CL,advertised as "a stud horse I need to get rid of don't have a use for him and don't want to cut him because he is a good looking horse and would make good offspring he is a clidsdale Appaloosa mix 7 years old." I can pretty much guarantee he has not been started. He may or may not be halter broke, if he is it's because he came that way. Making fun of someone's spelling irritates me. But the phrasing tells me the writer is not an experienced horseman. I can look at this ad and guess I'd be looking at a heavy-boned, long-backed stud. His cold blooded side may or may not have made him gentle enough to be handled, but he could easily be up for sale because he impregnated the neighbors prize pleasure horse or bit their kid, or both, and the owner is trying to avoid a lawsuit.If I was interested in a draft-cross I MIGHT call about him, but probably not. I can find too many draft X to look at that are broke to ride and drive, and are advertised as such. This is yet another example of a horse left standing too long.
Red roan Draft x gelding $1000 (Colorado) - "Dexter has been used for everything you can imagine! Hes packed elk, done tons of camping and pack trips, taken beginners on trail rides, taught kids to ride English and jump as well as ride western and play mounted games, hes been swimming, been in parades, and just about anything else you can imagine. Hes up to date on his shots and wormer. He has big, solid hooves that dont require shoes. Hes great to trailer load and easy to handle on the ground and in the saddle. He is blind in one eye, but that hasnt affected his ability to teach people to ride. He is perfectly safe for little kids (even though hes really tall) and hes strong and sound so he can handle adult men just as well. He is very safe and friendly and has no vices."
I want the town you just described! He sounds like my dream kids horse. I wouldn't call to look at the clydie, but I would call about that roan.
Roan gets corrected to town on my phone. Ughhh.
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